Any Bertram 30 Moppie Owners out there?

amarok · Post by **amarok** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 9:47 am

Hello, I love the Bertram 33, but my wife thought it was too big for the two of us right now. So, we settled on the next best thing (in my opinion), a 1995 30' Moppie. I hope to have her repowered with Yanmar 315s by spring, she originally had cummins 315. If there are any Moppie owners out there that have any suggestions regarding moving or changing things in the engine room, I would appreciated the feedback since she is pretty well cleaned out right now. Right now I am debating whether to replace the hot water heater which is on the outside of the port engine...... I can't imagine it would be easy to do with the engine in place. (it is a Force 10 Electric Water Heater) Also, I'd love to hear any feedback regarding how this boat performs at sea. How does she drift? Beam into the wind probably, huh? (my old boat drifted stern into the wind, but she was an I/O) Thank you!!

Post by **dougl33** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:32 pm

I don't think there are a lot of 30 owners heer, but overall, it is a Bert so I'm sure you'll be happy with it. Why the change from the Cummins to Yanmars?

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 8:31 pm

Good luck with your new boat. I'm sure you are going to like her. Because you already have Cummins wouldn't you save a lot of money by repowering with Cummins? Why aren't you rebuilding the engines you already have? Buzz

amarok · Post by **amarok** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:54 am

Thanks for the feedback! The boat actually came without engines. The owner had the Cummins 315s removed for rebuild after 1100hrs, but I think he ran into financial difficulties and had to get out. Kind of disappointing that the engines needed a rebuild after so few hours, but from the condition of the boat, it looks like maintenence wasn't a priority for the previous owner. I agree that the Cummins would be a simpler install, almost plug and play! The debate between Cummins and Yanmar is a difficult one for sure. I have been reading the sites for the past couple of years (boatdiesel, thehulltruth, bertram31&33, etc.) and it seems like either choice is a good one. But, since I am in CT, there is limited Cummins support while Yanmar dealers are just about everywhere. And, I think the new Yanmar 315s are cheaper than the new QSB Cummins, but I need to do some shopping at the boat shows. Since I plan on keeping the boat for a long time, I don't think I want to go with remans. Although the Cummins remans sound like a great deal and are probably the smartest thing to do. From a performance perspective, the Yanmars are almost 1000lbs lighter per engine. So, I think this would be a good combination for this boat since she is 'light' at ~13,000 lbs compared to the ~22,000lbs of the 33. I know the heavier cummins will help smooth out the heavy seas, but most of my boating will be in Long Island Sound with occasional offshore trips. One concern that I have with the boat is that the shafts are only 1 3/8". It seems like a lot of repowers upgrade the shafts to 1 1/2 or 1 3/4". And, the Yanmar dealer recommended the upgrade. The boat had 1.53:1 gears from the factory and 21x26 3 blade props. Since the Bertram engineers designed in the smaller shafts, I have confidence that they knew what they were doing. And there may even be some advantages with the smaller shaft?? Also, keeping the original shafts saves some serious bucks, so I want to research this thoroughly. Doug, I think you have the 1 3/8" shafts with your Cummins? Are you satisfied with the shafts? Or, do you plan on upgrading in the future? Any thoughts and feedback would be appreciated!! Thanks!! Paul

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:02 am

Paul, with all the work you are doing you may want to think about not changing your shafts over to 1.5". It's to bad that you don't have better Cummins support. I really like my Cummins and the parts are cheaper than Yanmars. The Cummins remans are great buys. Buzz

CB35 · Post by **CB35** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:11 am

Sounds like someone got a crappy cummins reman. There is nothing wrong with cummins 6B's at 300HP. I would not be crazy and repower with yanmars until I had the existing cummins gone over. Also I don't know what chart you are looking at; but yanmars are not 1000 pounds lighter per engine. In fact I doubt four 6BT's would be a 1000 pounds lighter then 4 yanmars.

amarok · Post by **amarok** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 5:30 am

1,000lbs does seem like a lot of a difference. i'll double check the spec sheets. maybe one was with a trans or something. Charlie, the boat has no engines!

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 6:52 am

The Cummins 6Bs are about 1,000 lbs lighter each than the Cat 3208s, I suspect they are about the same weight as the Yanmars. Amarok... pls send me an email so we can discuss your engine plans. I would seem that with the boat already set up for Cummins 6Bs the cost savings alone would be a determining factor.

Post by **dougl33** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:11 am

I would go with the Cummins reman 330B. Don't be fooled by the nomenclature. They are brand new engines. The weights are as follows (without gears) direct from boatdiesel: Cummins 330B (315hp @2800rpms): 1280 lbs Yanmar 6LPA-STP2 (311hp @3800rpms): 899 lbs The Cummins are very easy to maintain and to obtain parts for. Personally, I like the lower revving nature of the Cummins. I do have inch and 3/8 shafts. I am not planning on upsizing them. Nearly all of the 33 diesel boats produced had inch and 3/8's shafts. If you have the key ways done correctly and don't hang too much shaft past the strut you'll be fine.

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 10:16 am

Paul, Congrats on the B30, it's one of my favorite new designs I saw one at Rock Hall MD several years ago and thought man that a neat "Big" little boat. I'm not sure where you're at, but the Annapolis Boat show is in Oct and Cummins is usually well represented. Wes is the local rep for Cummins and I've spoken to him numerous times over the years, he's even got a B35 with 370 cummins in it. I've found him knowledgeable and reasonably un-biased. As Doug said, the factory re-man motors are really new, only the injector pump goes through the line twice; remans from a rebuild shop are something different. The 6bta's are well respected motors and if you want a little more go with the 370's, I'm all for over powering and not having to use it all the time;) Regarding weight, Bertrams LOVE IT, sure you may pick up 1-3kts when it's calm but the ride is different. The only clear benefit of Yanmar over cummins I see is the faster rotation of yanmar will allow you to turn a smaller prop for slower idle speed w/o trolling valves. So if the motors are out of the boat, check, fix, replace & clean/paint whatever is around them that will be more difficult when motors are installed. I think i've got the same HW heater that I picked up for under $200 & it's an easy replacement. Good Luck and Let's see some Pic's

amarok · Post by **amarok** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:51 pm

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I spoke to the cummins dealer in Niantic CT this morning, he said he has some remans in stock that I can look at so I am going down next week to take a look. He is both Cummins and Yanmar, so he should be able to give me an unbiased opinion between the two. Nice to see such a loyal following on the Cummins! I am on the CT river, near hartford. The boat is in inside storage right now. My contact info is paulpranzo@yahoo.com (860) 918 5974 (cell). I'd love to talk. By the way, my wife says I have "Bertram Brains" because I have been in a daze ever since buying this boat. I find it difficult to think about anything else. Anyone else have this problem?? [:)] I don't know if I can wait until spring to get her wet. Hopefully the pics come throug.... She was sitting for 2 years, so she needs a lot of elbow grease. I spent a whole day with the buffer on the hull and it is amazing how that bertram gelcoat shines up! As you can see from the pics, the genny is a bit rusty. Hopefully it still runs, only 500hrs and it is a 2000 model. I can only imagine how bad the engines looked. It is probably good that they are gone. Cheers, Paul [img]http://www.bertram33.com/images/uploads ... Moppie.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.bertram33.com/images/uploads ... 5-1526.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.bertram33.com/images/uploads ... 5-1927.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.bertram33.com/images/uploads/30 Moppie 1995 019_interior1.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.bertram33.com/images/uploads/2091122_6.jpg[/img]

amarok · Post by **amarok** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:01 pm

oops! too big, sorry!

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:58 pm

Paul, I see you're up north, if you can't talk to a straight shooting Cummins rep, let me know and I'll give you Wes' info. The cummins 370 were my first and best choice for a B35 and would have went that way if it wasn't for the total repower package I got with the CAT's I used. Thanks for the pic's, just a tip, when I cleaned the crud in my B35 during conversion, I used Marine Clean from POR15, available on line. I also picked up some nylon and nylon/brass scrub brushes from the local dollar store that worked great!! Yank that genset, paint it and replace the hoses now. It's easier todo over the winter and may be possible to do in place. I primed and painted with their white paint as well. Living with it for a year or so, I'd maybe consider a blue or gray instead, white shows everything!!!! Also, as the install progresses you paint job gets messed up along the way. For the hull and topsides, cleaner wax (don't need to compound) until the black streaks are gone then coat with a polish, I use yacht bright, but I think any will work well. The idea is to clean it down to good gelcoat and then add the polish to protect. It's the polish which will allow you to simply wash off those black steaks from the rain, as long as you use a mild car-wash soap. A 30ft express with cummins 330hp will not dissapoint even by 2009 standards! So don't be in a hury to jump on the newest technology. At this point bolt up will get you on the water much sooner and with less hastle. br,

amarok · Post by **amarok** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:14 pm

Thanks for the tips and referral, John! I like your idea about the 370 recons. She would be a screamer. I'll let you know how I make out next week.

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:31 am

Amarok... Pls drop me an email note with your phone number and I will call you.. there are a couple of issues with your repowering plans that I would like to discuss with you.