bunch of repower questions...........

Grady Smith · Post by **Grady Smith** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 9:40 am

Hey Guys, I am doing a repower now. I pulled the cockpit this week. I would appreciate some help with my questions. Where's the best place(read cheapest) to get exhaust hose and SS T clamps? Hard or Soft hose? Rudder bearings? Centek fiberglass nipples to enlarge the ends of my mufflers? Any thoughts on my titanium shafts....since I have 1 3/8th shafts and I have a handy pair of titanium shafts I was going to try them with the higher torque diesels. Think they will hold? A chair bracket as my boat doesn't have one......it's a 1978? What new type fuel line? I plan to keep my side vents and bore a 1 in hole in the muffler.......454's to 6BT's and adding an aftercooler and "tweaking em"........boring the turbo and installing high flow compressor wheels and upping the pressure.......also where is the best place to get gelcoat to redo my flybridge while I have it off? I would like to order a close match. And does anyone have pics of their bridge instrument panels redone. I can't seem to find aftermarket panels and the cummins B panels are $800/each. I now plan to glass the dash and remove the plastic panel then recut holes and mount flowscans and flowscan tachs directly into the gelcoat. Any thoughts there? I know this is alot but I got lots to figure out and I know you guys can give me the lowdown. Does flowscan still make the oil, fuel, and water with both gauges in the 2 inch diameter. It seems like they discontinued them possibly as I can't find them anywhere. Also where can I get cannon pin connectors as I want to take the bridge off in the winter each year and bring it inland to my shop. Thanks, Grady

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:20 pm

Well the gelcoat can be had from Hightide Marine in Miami, but they're proud of it. The 1.375" shafts should be upped to 1.75". Bad news I know, but you'll feel better about it later. That means you'll need new struts, also from Hightide. If you don't want the new struts then at least put in 1.5" Aquamet 22 (or the Temet) and get the thin-walled cutlass bearings that will fit in your existing struts but take a 1.5" shafts. Might want to think about dripless shaft seals now too, if you're fond of those. Rudder bearings from Grainger, are called pillow-block bearings. www.grainger.com The twinscan oil/temp/volt gauges are manufactured no longer- I like them too and wish I had bought some myself while they were still available. Bruce at Southeast Marine in West Palm might still have some, and the best place to reach him is to post on the www.Bertram31.com site or Bruce@SoutheastMarine.com. You want that heavy-duty blue fuel line, I can't remember the brand name but basically it is the most expensive stuff. I'll have a look at my boat next week and tell you the name if you want (is in the shop right now and i try to stay out of their way). Getting the fittings on it is a serious bitch, have some beers readily available that day. I'm interested in your talk of modifying the turbo, never heard of anybody doing such a thing. Tell us more about that! Good luck, that's quite an undertaking there. Take some pics and post them regularly, and let us critique your work Sean Burlingham "Island Time" 1987 Bertram 33 SF Melbourne, FL SBurlingham@cfl.rr.com [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... d_Time.jpg[/img]

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:59 pm

Grady... My boat was originally powered with Cat 260 HP 3208's, but now has 315 HP Cummins 6B's.. My shafts are 1 1/2" D but I do not know what material, trans are 1.5 to 1 Twin Disc 5050A's, props are 21"D x 23"P 3 blade no cup.. I know more is better but 1 1/2"D shafts might be adequate for you too. Replacing the struts can be a big deal I am sure. You have not mentioned the HP you are installing. I believe Buzz K's FBC ("Buzz Off"), which originally had gas but now has 6B's 330 HP, with also 1 1/2" shafts had one strut with the original cutless bearing rubber bored out to 1 1/2" D, while the other had a 1 1/2" cutless bearing in place when he bought it. Frank B - IRGuy@aol.com "Phoenix" 1983 FBC

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 4:45 am

Grady, Chair bracket probably from high tide,titanium shafts? what make ?I have not seen titanium shafts. Are you not planning on enlarging your exhaust outlets?

Grady Smith · Post by **Grady Smith** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:01 am

Hi Sean, Could you get me the name of that fuel line? I would appreciate it. As for the turbo I bought from a friend a set of 6bt 210's. Bought them from a friend who installed recon 330's.....he couldn't ID an oil problem.....it was a seal on the turbo causing a leak. We ID'd the problem immediately and sent it out to a turbo shop in Charlotte.......I asked my engine guy to see if they could increase the flow......he said yes by installing a larger compressor wheel....and it wouldn't be much more as the whole shaft/assembly was bing replaced anyway.......so I had 30% larger inlet compressor's installed......that along with the pumps turned up a bit and the aftercoolers......should yield around 290-320......we may dyno them. I have a set of titanium shafts that came from a B31 that the NASA guy in New York I think had......he was the fellow who installed a set of 572 Merlin's in his boat but passed away before they were really finished.......very sad.....I bought them but later sold them and decided diesel.....I still have the two $6,000/each shafts.......yes that's right $6K/each.....probably the only set in the world.........so I am going to install them and go with it. They are 1 3/8 inches. I will prob install a set of dripless shafts at the same time. Thanks, Grady quote:Originally posted by Sean Burlingham Well the gelcoat can be had from Hightide Marine in Miami, but they're proud of it. The 1.375" shafts should be upped to 1.75". Bad news I know, but you'll feel better about it later. That means you'll need new struts, also from Hightide. If you don't want the new struts then at least put in 1.5" Aquamet 22 (or the Temet) and get the thin-walled cutlass bearings that will fit in your existing struts but take a 1.5" shafts. Might want to think about dripless shaft seals now too, if you're fond of those. Rudder bearings from Grainger, are called pillow-block bearings. www.grainger.com The twinscan oil/temp/volt gauges are manufactured no longer- I like them too and wish I had bought some myself while they were still available. Bruce at Southeast Marine in West Palm might still have some, and the best place to reach him is to post on the www.Bertram31.com site or Bruce@SoutheastMarine.com. You want that heavy-duty blue fuel line, I can't remember the brand name but basically it is the most expensive stuff. I'll have a look at my boat next week and tell you the name if you want (is in the shop right now and i try to stay out of their way). Getting the fittings on it is a serious bitch, have some beers readily available that day. I'm interested in your talk of modifying the turbo, never heard of anybody doing such a thing. Tell us more about that! Good luck, that's quite an undertaking there. Take some pics and post them regularly, and let us critique your work Sean Burlingham "Island Time" 1987 Bertram 33 SF Melbourne, FL SBurlingham@cfl.rr.com [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... d_Time.jpg[/img]

Grady Smith · Post by **Grady Smith** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:10 am

Hey Tim, They were made(custom) by a NASA guy who installed a set of 572 Merlin big blocks in his B31.....yes I am going to enlarge the gas 454 exhaust nipple to 5 inches myself and keep the side vent. I like it as it seems to really work to eliminate the station wagon effect. So when I finish the rear outlet will be around 5 inches and then the side vents look to add about another inch or more in area so I think it will be fine. Since I am doing this I hadn't really thought about going to 6 inches. I would have to buy larger tips. Any thoughts? Thanks, Grady quote:Originally posted by photo finish Grady, Chair bracket probably from high tide,titanium shafts? what make ?I have not seen titanium shafts. Are you not planning on enlarging your exhaust outlets? Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... Finish.jpg[/img]

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Sat Aug 19, 2006 10:16 pm

quote:Originally posted by Grady Smith Hi Sean, Could you get me the name of that fuel line? I would appreciate it. Boat is in the shop for a bottom job, but I get it back tuesday and will have a look for you. Sean Burlingham "Island Time" 1987 Bertram 33 SF Melbourne, FL SBurlingham@cfl.rr.com [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... d_Time.jpg[/img]

franklyprice · Post by **franklyprice** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:14 am

Grady, I think the fuel lines Sean is referring to are Aeroquip. They make a complete line of marine hoses and fittings for boat and is what came on the later ones. Not sure what year they started to come on them but my '87 has them. I buy the Aeroquip stuff locally from an Aeroquip dealer named Genalco, here in Boston. They have or can get all the fittings and hoses but you should call for a catalog first so you know the numbers of what you want. You may also be able to find an Aeroquip dealer closer to you. I would be a little leary of titanium shafts, especially 1 3/8". Titanium is of course strong and light and resists corrosion very well but is more flexible than steels and when it does fail from all that flexing, will do so in a big way, snapping off. Of course it may be fine but it would seem that you'd be the pioneer with that and could have some bad results. Could work really well or it could be a nightmare.

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 8:54 am

quote:Originally posted by franklyprice Grady, I think the fuel lines Sean is referring to are Aeroquip. Frank is right, they are Aeroquip. You can get them from Lewis Marine. They are the best but the fittings are a serious bitch to get on. Sean Burlingham "Island Time" 1987 Bertram 33 SF Melbourne, FL SBurlingham@cfl.rr.com [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... d_Time.jpg[/img]

Post by **dougl33** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 9:27 am

I think you'll you'd be fine with aquamet 1.375 shafts. Don't forget that all the diesel boats came with 1.375 shafts. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:58 am

Doug... It may be a fine point, but I believe that the original 3208 Cats that Bertram installed were all 260 HP.. going up from there to whatever Grady will have for power might call for larger diam shafts.. my boat, which originally had 260HP 3208's now has Cummins 6B's 315 HP and 1 1/2" diam shafts. I don't think the previous owner who had the repower done changed the shaft sizes. As I stated elsewhere, I also know of another 33 with Cummins 330 HP 6B's.. repowered from gas 454's which the present owner found had one cutless bearing bored out from 1 3/8" to 1 1/2" diam and the other was 1 1/2" as he bought it, so he also has 1 1/2" diam shafts. I know that the newer Yanmar/Volvo diesels are higher speed and lower torque than the older heavy Cats and Cummins', so he might be OK if he was to go that route.. but with all he is doing and saying he will install Cummins 6B's it would seem prudent that he check this issue out carefully. If Grady wants to do some checking the Boatdiesel forum has several calculators available to members, one of which will determine a recommended shaft size/material for a given boat and engine combination. Frank B - IRGuy@aol.com "Phoenix" 1983 FBC

Post by **dougl33** » Sun Aug 20, 2006 5:33 pm

Frank, All the diesel boats (including the later 320hp Cat boats like Jose Jean's) had inch and 3/8's shafts. The gas boats were switched to inch and half shafts either very late in 1986 or very in 1987. I know it seems odd, but that's what they did. I think if his shafts are aquamets, he'll be ok at inch and 3/8's. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

franklyprice · Post by **franklyprice** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:32 am

I agree with Doug. By todays repower standards 1 3/8s is a little small but Bertram did it for years and they weren't known for breaking shafts. My concerns about the size were because of the titanium. Generally when you engineer things for titanium , you want it to be in compression or you replace something that has a large cross-section and the reduction in weight is worth the expense. I would be afraid that replacing the shaft with titanium of the same dimensions you might be asking for some wierd flexing issues that we just don't see with other materials that are available for shafting. Titanium is very much like a spring . Don't know if that would be a good thing or not but if it did work , I bet it would have a much shorter life span than auquamet and how would you know how many cycles it had in it without some experience in this application? By the way, it would be pretty simple to go to inch and a half shafts by boring the strut and using thin-walled cutless bearings, which is what Bertram did. The scrap value of those titanium shafts would probably pay for whatever shaft you want. That's what I'd do.

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 3:14 am

Thanks Doug and Frank for shedding some light on this issue.. based on what Doug says I am surprised that my '83 boat has 1 1/2" shafts, since I am quite sure they were not changed when the Cat to Cummins repower was done in '96, and the certificate I have from Bertram states the engines were originally 260 HP. I always thought that 1 1/2" diam was more or less a minimum for our boats based on today's standards. The other boat I mentioned with the mismatched cutless bearings is an '86 I believe. Frank B - IRGuy@aol.com "Phoenix" 1983 FBC

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:27 am

It is my understanding that Bertram had a recall on the 1.375" shafts they installed on the diesel boats, but obviously not everyone got it done. They changed them out for 1.5" shafts because the 1-3/8" were snapping. A couple of years ago I was e-mailing back and forth with another guy about this issue, and we did a bunch of calculations that also suggested that 1.5" A22 was the minimum acceptable size/material. When I get to my other computer where the e-mails are I'll post the work. The conclusion was that our boats came off the factory with the 3208 underpropped. If you were to upsize the prop too much you would be stressing the 1.375" shaft beyond what is considered a safe limit. I think the safety factor was supposed to be a minimum of 3.0, but with the factory standard 20x22 prop and 1.375" shaft we are somewhere around 2.50. Add bigger props and the deisel engines put our more power to turn them, and the S.F. goes down more. Probably only an issue when climbing up the back of a large swell, but I personally don't like it and do plan to change it someday. Sean Burlingham "Island Time" 1987 Bertram 33 SF Melbourne, FL SBurlingham@cfl.rr.com [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... d_Time.jpg[/img]