I saw, I smelled

mudskipper · Post by **mudskipper** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:23 am

I went to meet the owner and the nice broker lady, and the owners son. It is a 1987 sport fish and it was once somebodys little cutie. now an old knockneed slut. it has nasty batteries with green fur, many hanging wires below deck, It has fiberglass tanks with the big Merc gas engines. We ran the boat and it seemed ok. Wonderful feel and handling,It is a tank in the good way. But I am preaching to the choir here. It is cheap to aquire much like goldfish in pet shop,but then you need filters an nets and food and a little diver with bubbles out his ass... This is a fixer upper. I could spend a week just putting screws back in holes. The thing that scared me was when I asked about the ethanol- tank thing ,the father and sun looked at me and said they never heard of that problem. Strong hydrocarbon scent in bilge It was a 103 degree day in all fairness. At $39000. should I get involved? The slip on the Glimmer Glass is what I really want, it comes with the boat.

Buy2ls · Post by **Buy2ls** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:43 am

Get a real picky surveyor, oh and BTW, surveys are not guarenteed for accuracy. Be prepared to spend some serious money if you want this boat.

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:55 am

In this market I would look around at other 33's before getting involved with that boat. It my be the boat you want but look around first. Once you find the boat you want then hire a good serveyor. Remember even if you find a perfect boat you'll spend a lot of money getting it like you want it much less a fixer upper. For me everything cost more than I thought it would. Buzz

CB35 · Post by **CB35** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:15 am

Mudskipper are you really a Bertram kind of guy? Or would you be happier with some big clorox bottle with good AC? So far what seems to interest you are things like slip location, and a weekend condo, and cruising around at 8kts. Bertram guys usually want a Bertram first and then do all those other things. Doug is a cruising guy; but most of us own Bertrams because we fish and want a boat that can handle more ocean then we can. Sounds to me a bayliner or a searay needs is in your future not a ocean munching Bertram. Just my 2 cents from a guy who has run many many Bertrams. They are not weekend condos first or an 8kt fluke boat for that matter. Now to address some of the issues. Green stuff on the batteries can be cleaned with a little water and baking soda in about 5 minutes. If it takes you a week to put a few screws back in the hole maybe you should stick to a plastic kayak. There are schools of thought that a late model fiberglass tank may hold up to E10. The E10 problem showed up several years ago in the older fiberglass tanks. They have all been replaced or the boat has just been sitting. Fiberglass tanks are fuel proof, but not smell proof. You need to future investigate the smell. At least if did smell like $hit so it sounds like the waste system is in good shape. That is a real plus on an old condo weekend boat. I think you really need to figure what you want; a Bertram or a slip on the Glimmer Glass. If it is a slip on the Glimmer Glass then buy the Bertram and pretty set of dock lines. You want to look your best. Oh no matter what you do get a good surveyor. If you need a recommendation I know the best, John Spencer, you broker will hate him by the way.

CB35 · Post by **CB35** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:35 am

Mudskipper. Just looked up the boat on Yacht world This classic Bertram is in excellent condition with such options: Cruisair Air Conditioning, Heat, Hot and Cold Water Pressure System, AM/FM Stereo, TV, Generator, Beautiful Oak Wood Interior, Galley up with AC/DC Refrigerator/Freezer, Microwave, Convertible Dinette, Large Master Stateroom with Hanging Closet, Stand-up Head with Separate Stall Shower, Plenty of Storage, Huge Cockpit, Tournament Style Bridge, Furuno Fish Finder, Northstar 952 GPS, Ritchie Compass, Furuno 1731 Radar, 2 ICOM VHF Radio's,Tackle Center, Outriggers, Swim Platform and more! She also has NEW Risers, NEW Elbows, NEW Zincs, NEW Water Pumps on both engines, NEW Trim Tabs, NEW Custom Eisenglass and NEW canvas, ($4,000). Her awesome ride characteristics, engineering, design, and build quality is unsurpassed. Your description of the boat does not seem to match. Yes I know brokers embellish a lot, but the guy spent real money fixing her up. For 39K you can hardly go wrong. Still get a survey. A new fuel tank will run 6-10K for someone to do the complete job. Most of us would buy the tank for 3k or so and do the job ourselves. But it sounds you will need help with a screw gun. Sorry to bust you balls; but it need doing!!!!!

mudskipper · Post by **mudskipper** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:00 am

I appriciate your honesty. WHat is the contact info for your surveyor? I'm a long time crane operator, and I know about maintainannce. That is why I was shocked at the actual condition of the boat. I fished on a party boat from Cape May that listed itself as the ALL NEW BIG JIM from 1962 to about 1989 . The Yacht world listed what has happened in the geologic time period not lately. The owners were nice but not fix it guys. By the way as long as the docklines match my new bonnet I'll be a happy lad.

CB35 · Post by **CB35** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:57 am

John F. Spencer - Accredited Marine Surveyor 2000 Spencer Marine Surveys, LLC 104 Longman Street Toms River, New Jersey 08753-2439 732-255-4700 -O, 732-267-6980 -Mobile, 732-255-4720 -Fax spencermarine@comcast.net Specialty: Yachts, Small Craft John has done many Bertrams in this region of the country. Drop my name and he will probably give a break on the price. Good you can take some ribbing. You have the sense of humor to be a Bertram owner. Check out www.bertramrendezvous.com I am the guy in the Hawaiian Shirt. When you buy a Bertram you can enter into a group of owners who fish hard, but also take some time out for a really big party. If you don't get the boat in time for this year's event you can always come by car. Best of Luck, Charlie Haws

Post by **dougl33** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:07 am

You'd have to have a sense of humor to wear that shirt! BTW, even though I do only cruise the boat, I bought it for the same reason. When its time to go, its time to go. I only get so much vacation and/or nice weather.

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:43 am

Mudskipper... I am in the middle of a complete rebuild of a B33 FBC. I bought the boat as a "project" boat that could be had at a low price but needed cosmetic and other work I knew I could do myself. I also did not want to have to replace engines if possible. I found a boat with good diesels and a good Bertram hull, but everything else was trash. Either the doofus previous owner did not maintain things, or the things he did work on he made worse. I can tell you that if I had to have my boat rebuilt to my standards by professionals I couldn't afford it. I am nearing the end of a 2-3 year rebuild project, but at least I am beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel. To be blunt.. if you can't or won't do the things you see on the boat that need attention.. and you will need a yard to do them.. don't buy that boat unless you have a big checkbook. Several of us here will tackle almost anything wrong with our boats.. and at least one of us (I am not mentioning names, but some of us know who he is!) does not do major work himself but is OK paying someone else to do it. He enjoys his boat as much as snyone else, and to him the tradeoff makes sense. He is still working, I am pretty much retired.. I have time and little money, he has more money but less time. He keeps his boat in great shape. Each of us makes the most of what we have. And, I hate being on a boat where I don't know the condition of things. One advantage of working on your own boat is that you know where each pump, through hull fitting, fuse block, valve and disconnect switch etc, etc, is. If something goes wrong you know where to look.. and you know where the spare parts and tools are. Let some yard monkey install a bilge pump and you are not sure if he sealed the electrical connections or put the hose clamp on correctly.. When I do something on my boat I know how it was done, and if I screwed something up I know where the spare parts to fix it are. Finally.. I will say.. if you don't have the bucks to get the boat into good shape, and you don't have the tools and intellect to do most of the work yourself.. DON'T buy that boat. To me there is nothing worse than being on a boat that I know needs maintenance but has not been cared for. There aren't any mechanics or electricians of woodworkers or fiberglas techs who make "boatcalls".. there is a law of nature that says that things fail at the worst possible time. Usually on a hot Sunday morning out of sight of land with 8 POB, none of whom are mechanically inclined. Not a happy time for anyone, least of all you, who will have to pay the towing charges. There are plenty of boats for sale today.. you need to know before you write the first check to the broker that you have a good knowledge base and that the boat you are buying is what you are looking for, and that you can improve if necessary by your own efforts or by writing checks. If you can't afford to have a yard fix it, and you can't fix it yourself.. DON'T BUY IT!

ckuppens · Post by **ckuppens** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:01 pm

2 things... 1 Charlie should respond to every post from now on (after he burns that shirt)... That was classic! 2 One thing I realized about buying my boat is different owners have different tolerances for different things on a boat. For example my boat had an old bottom machine (worked but the screen was black and white/10+ years old).. I like to fish so I spent 1,000 on a new machine/ducer/high speed ferring block... Some would say that wasn’t necessary, but to me it was. The guy who owned my boat didn’t use the backdrop on the enclosure so the zippers were crap and the canvas needed to be altered to fit the rocket launchers he installed… I could have left it as is but wanted to use the backdrop ($400)… see where I am going… it is more about what YOU want sometimes. The current owners may have focused on different parts of the boat than what your eye was drawn to. I agree to get a GREAT surveyor... be careful though because whatever recommendations they make you will have to fix to satisfy insurance co. My surveyor was great! but he made several recommendations that went into the report and came out of my wallet!

John C · Post by **John C** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 4:35 am

I offered 25k for that boat 4 years ago. No broker involved cash and carry deal. Boat needs alot of work.

CB35 · Post by **CB35** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:58 am

If you offered 25K for years then the boat must only be worth 12.5K or less today. I think your 25K offer was a bit unreasonable four years ago. Oh I forgot it is a 33B not a 35B. So maybe 12K or so is reasonable!!!

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 9:48 am

My final comment here.. I am sounding too condescending probably, but maintenance or lack of it is seriously not a trivial issue. Everything said above is very much to the point! But there is another point I feel needs addressing here. If a boat has been for sale for one, two, or maybe even four years, you can pretty much assume that there was no real maintenance done on her in one, two or maybe even four years! Once an owner decides he wants to (or has to) sell a boat maintenance essentially stops. Who is going to do anything to a boat except what is absolutely necessary to sell her? In regard to maintenance.. there are lots of maintenance items that you can see in a quick inspection. The "green fur" around the battery terminals, loose deck boards, missing caulking between deck boards, loose and dangling wires.. If the owner did not attend to the things a prospective buyer can see, how much maintenance do you think he did to things you can not see? Engine oil changes, shaft seal maintenance, water pump impellor changes, rotted wood backing boards under the scoops on the deck, battery condition, water leaks around windows, etc, etc????? Keep looking.. you don't buy a boat so you can get the slip that comes with it, unless you have the $$$ to turn around and sell it so you can put another boat in that slip. You buy a boat so you can take your family and friends out for a day of fun, maybe even some relaxation.. and the fun aspect gets lost pretty quickly if an engine dies or a fire occurs because of faulty wiring, or a shaft seal leaks a lot or a cracked through hull finally breaks, and you find you have a bilge full of water, especially with your family or friends aboard. In my 40+ years of humble sailing and power boating experience I learned one important thing.. I never went out of sight of land unless I knew for sure one of two things... either the owner had the money to have a yard do all the maintenance on his boat, or the owner had the desire and ability to maintain the boat himself. In the latter case I also had to be sure he really did a good job of maintenance. One of my best friends just took his wife in their 40' fast trawler on the Great Loop trip.. 13 1/2 months and about 3,000 miles up the Hudson River, Erie Canal to the Great Lakes, up into Canada, down the Mississippi and other rivers to the Gulf of Mexico, across Florida and up the Intracoastal to New York and ultimately back to New England. When we were younger he and I sailed about 30,000 miles together, about 20,000 of it offshore. He does almost all his own maintenance. I have worked alongside him on his boats and mine, and I trust his judgement and ability. A testament to his maintenance capabilities is the fact that in their whole trip, the only failures they experienced were the loss of a starter motor on his generator, and a leaky coil in his hot water tank. Neither were predictable. KEEP LOOKING! Your boat is out there!

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » Sat Jul 10, 2010 12:50 pm

For most people it's cheaper to buy a boat that someone else has fixed up rather than for them to fix it up. Buzz

schultz · Post by **schultz** » Sun Jul 11, 2010 12:18 pm

Buzz, you are 100% right about that.