Gas Consumption

Mike_Lenz · Post by **Mike_Lenz** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:43 pm

Hello everyone, I’m new to your site and a new Bertram 35 owner. I just bought a 1973 B35 with new 8.1 crusaders in her. I moved up from a B25 that I had for 4 years. Does anyone have any idea what the difference in fuel consumption should be from the carbureted 454 engines to the 8.1 MPI? The boat also has new transmissions and 4 bladed props on her. Thanks, Mike…..

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:39 pm

Mike, The fuel consumption will probably be just slightly better but the performance will be a huge jump. probably a gain of 3-5 knots. I put the 8.1's in my 33. What speed are you getting and do you have floscans? I cruise 22-24 and top out at 31. Welcome aboard!

Mike_Lenz · Post by **Mike_Lenz** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 1:55 pm

Tim, Thanks for the response. I have only sea trialed the boat before winter storage, the mechanic that put the engines in said the boat did 40 MPH WOT, I find that had to believe but on the sea trial at 3200 RPM I was cursing at 22 knots. The flowscan was reading 12 gas/per engine. I just was wondering if that was a true reading. Thanks again, Mike…..

Post by **dougl33** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:29 pm

Mike, I've been on Tim's boat, as well as a 35 Egg that has the same motors. The cruise and WOT speeds are nearly indentical. Both of these boats weigh somewhat less than your boat does, so I doubt your mechanic's numbers are acurate. 40mph translates into almost 35 knots. If I had to guess, I'd say you should expect similar numbers to what Tim gets. Where will you be running the boat and where was it run? The reason I'm asking is that I'm wondering if the boat has used ethanol fuel in the past and/or if it will in the future. Welcome aboard and good luck with the boat. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

Mike_Lenz · Post by **Mike_Lenz** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:46 pm

Doug, I bought the boat in MD on the Chesapeake Bay that’s where I sea trialed her. I will be keeping her in Sodus Point NY on Lake Ontario. I’m looking forward to the trip in the spring up the Hudson and then up the Eric Cannel. Thanks, Mike….

Post by **dougl33** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:53 pm

Mike, I'm not sure about the Chesapeke (I think some parts require ethanol and some don't), but I know for certain that New York (at least Long Island Sound) is an ethanol area. Is it possible to find out from the previous owner if the tank ever had ethanol in it? You're not guaranteed to have problems, but there are some preventative measures you can take to better the odds. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 3:05 pm

Mike, During your sea trial if the boat was as light as possible with very little fuel and you were going down current and down wind then I would guess that 24gph and 22 knots sounds about right.My 33 is usually fully loaded whenever I go anywhere and I usually cruise at 22.5 at 3450rpm at 30-35gph.

Mike_Lenz · Post by **Mike_Lenz** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:19 am

Doug, The boat has never had Ethanol gas in her yet. The previous owner filler he up in the beginning of the season and didn’t use her at all. I’m in the process of looking into replacing the tank. The current marina gave me an estimate of $8,000 to $10,000. I call the marina in Sodus Point NY an inquired about Ethanol gas, they said they have not received any as of yet and their distributor didn’t expect to get Ethanol for 2007. What would you suggest could help me with the Ethanol problem and the fiberglass gas tank? Tim, Thanks for the update on your fuel consumption; the boat had Â¾ fuel, 40gal of water and 4 persons on board, other then that the boat was stripped. She has no hard top. If you guys send me your emails I’ll send you some pictures of her. Thanks to both of you for your responses, I’m in the automotive pars business if I can help you with anything let me know. Thanks, Mike…..

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:54 am

Mike, Congrats!!! I had noticed that boat on Yachtworld and was very tempted to to have a look, only about 1.5 hours from where I live. Just didn't have the time. Aside from from issues with fuel I think the new crusader 8.1's can hold their own with diesels. The tank replacement cost sounds kind of high. If your still in the chesapeake, give John Patnovic a call over at Worton creek, it would only be a couple of hour run over to his place and he's about the best around for work and honest work at that. I've got a 72 with older gas crusaders and I figured a cruise economy of about .65-.7 miles per gallon. On my trip to atlantic city this summer I cruised at 20kts and burned about 32-33 gph total. I'm not sure how your teak deck is fastened, I've got an aluminum deck and it has screws around the edges and comes out pretty easy. I hate the thought of cutting my tank out but will probablu due it this winter. I'm going to have the motors compression and leak-down checked prior to pulling and if everything's good then I'll replace the tank and if not then she goes into long term storage and diesel repower. Hopefully you'll be able to join us at Atlantic City next year. This year we had about 5 B35's. Congrats again on what looked like a very nicely kept boat. br, JohnD John D "Lady D" Bertram 35 Pasadena MD

Post by **dougl33** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:43 am

Mike, There are a few things you could do that may help minimize/elminate the effects of ethanol on your tank: 1. Start using a fuel additive like Startron or K100 (or some other non dry-gas based product) prior to taking on your first load of ethanol. My thinking here is to start the cleanning and water removal process from your tank before it even sees ethanol. The Startron and K100 claim to break down contaminates and water at the molecular level so that they can pass through the fuel system and combustion chamber. Depending on how dirty your tank is and/or how much water is present, it may be necessary to change your fuel water separators after running with the additive. 2. Run down your tank as close to empty as possible prior to taking on your first load of ethanol as it has been suggested by many that mixing large quantities of MBTE and ethanol could contribute to the issues that some are having. 3. Do some research on the fuel docks where you will be purchasing your fuel (including any that may be on your way home from Md to Lake O.). Ask them if they are currently pumping ethanol. If so, how long have they been pumping it? At this point, most of the fuel docks on your way north through NJ and NY have been pumping ethanol for almost 3 years and should be OK. I would try and avoid any fuel docks that have recently (within 30-60 days) started pumping ethanol as your likely to pump in a load of crap as the ethanol starts cleaning out their tanks. All marinas and fuel docks should have had their tanks drained and cleaned prior to taking their first load of ethanol (as well as a filter change). If they said they didn't need to, then I would skip that fuel dock and find another. This was the process I adhered to this past summer and it seemed to work for me. Please note, that I did this even when I went on vacation. I only fueled up at fuel docks that convinced me they did the right thing. Of course, this entailed making a lot of phone calls to fuel docks all over the North Shore of Boston (including Boston) as well as a number of places in the Cape and Islands that I knew I'd be visiting. 4. Use Startron or K100 at every fill up. I believe that if you can keep water from accumulating in your tank, then phase separation cannot occur and you are more likely not to develop problems. I also believe that any water found in your tanks is most likely being pumped in from the fuel docks rather than forming via condensation. Followng the above steps will not guarantee that you will be free from ethanol's unpleasantries. These are just a few things that I (and several other members here) did this past summer. So far, there are 5 or 6 of us that did most/all of the above. Between us, we burned 3000+ gallons of ethanol without being hit by the valve train destroying dreaded black goo. (knock on wood and keep your fingers crossed![:D]) I may be wrong as I have not spoken to every person who's fiberglass tank has been destroyed, but I do know that those that I have spoken to did not follow all of the steps above. Some did one or two, but nobody that I know that wrecked their tank did all of them. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:51 am

Doug, I am lucky enough to have never found any water in my racor filters.I hope this continues.In my case do you think startron is a waste of time and money? Some people have said they have got "coffee grounds" in their filters . Is that in your racor filters or is that in a pre filter? I ask because on my new Crusaders I have a small 3/4" round by 3" long filter basket that is the first filter prior to anything else including my racor that collects fine sediment.I changed those last week and found about 1/4 inch of sediment.I assume this is quite normal and is what the prefilter is supposed to do. Is this the same as the "coffee grounds" that some are getting?They look like coffee grounds.I am assuming that 1/4" over 300 hours of engine use is just par for the course.

Post by **dougl33** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:55 am

Tim, I can't comment on the coffee grounds. As far as Startron is concerned, it may not be a bad idea to start using it. Its relatively cheap to be a small price to pay for supposed peace of mind. It certainly can't hurt anything. It sounds like you've got the water thing covered, but Startron also claims to clean the same junk that the ethanol will certainly knock off the insides of your tank. It can't hurt to be as clean and water free as possible long in advance of ethanol coming to the S.Florida area. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

BECCA ROSE · Post by **BECCA ROSE** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:37 am

Tim, read about Startron at Starbrites website, it's all about the enzymes! Bill 1988 33 FBC Ipswich, Ma. [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... a_Rose.jpg[/img]

BECCA ROSE · Post by **BECCA ROSE** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:50 pm

I did read somewhere that a guy did a self test at home with a mix of ethanol gas/MTBE, adding startron, K100, and another(?) additive in separate containers. He said that the only one that kept the lethal mix from phase separating was the K100. So who the hell knows! Bill 1988 33 FBC Ipswich, Ma. [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... a_Rose.jpg[/img]

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:58 pm

Bill I think it was Ron Callhoon who post on B31 and 25B sites. I'm with you, I sure don't know. But after my trip to Atlanic City and back I changed my racors and there was a good bit of sludge brown stuff. I need to change them again, but have only put about 20 hrs on the boat since then. John John D "Lady D" Bertram 35 Pasadena MD