Starting Hurricane Matthew Repairs

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dealerschoice
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Starting Hurricane Matthew Repairs

Post by dealerschoice »

The boatyard is ready to start the repairs on Dealer's Choice which will included painting the hull sides but what I would like some advice on is replacing the rub rail. The rail was already painted when we purchased the boat but it is a nightmare to try to keep looking decent. The bow rail is coming off so now the boat will be painted from the toe rail down. I have read the older posts about the rub rail replacement but they are all at least 10 years old. The whole deck joint connection situation concerns me if thru bolts are not used. One of the old posts mentions a company called Heavens Bay which supposedly specializes in replacing the rub rails on old Bertrams and they look to still be in business but it looks as if they screw the rail into the deck joint. Has anyone replaced their rail in the last 10 years and if so how did it turn out. Thanks for any help. Scott 1981 46B Dealer's Choice Edisto Beach, SC
Scott Rizer 1981 46B Dealer's Choice Edisto Beach, SC
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Post by RJC2628 »

I had the rub rail replaced on my 1980 FBC after some storm damage. A New England yard drilled off the old bolt heads, let them fall where they may and then screwed in the new rub rail. It was a disaster! Leaks are abundant. I would stay away from anyone who wants to screw in a new rub rail. Costs of doing it correctly are very high, but I would fight with the insurance companies to pay to do it right. Good luck. Ron
Ron Callahan
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Post by dealerschoice »

It would seem to me once the old rail was off you could 5200 the joint all the way around to solve the leak problem but I don't know for sure about that. Do you remember if the deck joint has the thru bolts going through the rail or are they behind the rail. I just do not want to compromise the integrity of the structure. Thanks. Scott 1981 46B Dealer's Choice Edisto Beach, SC
Scott Rizer 1981 46B Dealer's Choice Edisto Beach, SC
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Post by h2ojst »

Scott, I removed the stainless outer rail then sandblasted the aluminum rail without disturbing the bolts. The "trick" is to then use a good Aluminum primer. We used a product called Alumagrip Zinc Chromate. It's an aeronautic product. Then before painting the hull a fine line 1/8" tape is laid between the top & bottom of the rail & the hull. Later, this will be caulked. This prevents the paint from chipping when you bump anything later on down the road. Lastly, we drilled & tapped new holes to bolt on the new stainless rail on the outside. So far (11 years later), the rail still looks great. A few bubbles here & there, but I like the fact that it still has the original integrity of the through bolts & not screws. I would think that unless your insurance company is willing to have you tear apart the interior of the boat to re-bolt a new rail, leave it as-is.
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Post by IRGuy »

Scott When I was redoing "Phoenix" in a DIY boatyard several years ago one of my projects was to paint the hull. The previous owner (doofus) had painted the boat several years before but his handiwork was terrible. He painted the rubrail with plain black paint (aluminum inboard part and SS outer strip) without any surface prep or primer. The paint was blistering and chipping off all around the boat. I researched painting aluminum online and by speaking with a couple of boatyard managers. Sadly I learned that nobody says painting aluminum on a boat will be a long term fix, and that no matter what technique you use over a few years blisters and probably some chipping will result. I am active on the B31 site as well as here, and the moderator at the time (Captain McCreary, who passed away last year) suggested a technique that produced great looking results for a couple of years but some small degree of pitting is beginning to show today. First, I removed the outboard stainless steel wear strip. This involved cutting diagonally under each screw head (destroying the SS rail in the process). Next, I used paint remover to remove the PO's crappy black paint. Then, I lightly scraped/sanded the heavy aluminum backing rail to remove any corrosion and smooth over any gross pitting. I did not try to fill the pittied areas with filler, as I believe the next steps are dependant on producing a continuous coating prior to applying paint. Then, following the instructions on each container, I washed the bare aluminum with a coat of "Alumaprep 33" followed immediately by a coat of "Alodine 1201". (go to HenkelNA.com for info). I then painted the rail with the same paint system I was using on the hull (two coats of AwlGrip 545 epoxy primer, fine sanding both coats, and two coats of AwlCraft 2000 top coat, fine sanding the first coat. After painting I drilled and tapped new holes for the SS rail using a never seize type material on the screw threads since SS screws in an aluminum substrate will eventually corrode together. There might be easier or better procedures, but as I said above.. nobody has assured me they have a long lasting procedure for painting aluminum. PS: I never, ever, use 5200 on ANYTHING on my boat, EVER. It is made to be permanent, and as a result is very difficult to remove. After spending several years rebuilding my boat I don't look at anything on it as being permanently bonded.. almost everything on it might need to be removed sometime in the future. There are two functions that must be addressed when fastening two things together on a boat.. the first is mechanical strength of the fastening. This is accomplished by screws or bolts or some other fastening system. The second is watertight integrity.. this is accomplished by some type of flexible caulk or filler. The bolts/screws provide mechanical strength, the caulk provides watertight intergity. For sealing I use only 4200.. it is as permanent as 5200, but not as difficult to remove for future repairs or replacement. You don't need the caulk for mechanical strength, so don't use a permanent sealing material. While I am on a material rant, I also NEVER use silicone. In uncured form it is a slimy geasey material, that gets on lots of places where you don't want it. Once cured it forms a tough flexible surface that over time will occasionally separate from the surfaces it was supposed to seal, and it is a bitch to remove. I also hate portable toilets, but that is a subject for another time. Good luck!
Frank B - IRGuy@aol.com "Phoenix" 1983 FBC Cummins 6Bs - 315HP Wilmington, NC
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Post by dealerschoice »

Thank you for all of the replies. I just spoke to Danny at High Tide and he tells me by taking off the old rail it will have no effect on the structural integrity of the boat. He gave me the rundown how the deck fits on the hull which I understand but he also says the deck and hull are joined by a piece of aluminum that is glassed over to secure the strength in the deck joint. I'm still waiting to hear from the boat yard about all of this but they seem to think I can replace it for the cost of painting it. Scott 1981 46B Dealer's Choice Edisto Beach, SC
Scott Rizer 1981 46B Dealer's Choice Edisto Beach, SC
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Post by retman »

Scott, nose around the boat behind cabinets there probably are unfinished accessible areas. On my FBC most on the gunnel from the stern to the forward salon bulkhead is generally gotten to. I see self tapping screws, nyloc nuts, some machine screws without nuts. This zone could be 75% thru bolted without a lot of trouble. If there is a glassed in aluminum bar it just needs to be drilled and tapped.
Bill Arnold 1988 33 FBC Merc 454 'Retriever' SOLD
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Post by dealerschoice »

The boatyard is supposed to speak with Danny at High Tide today. I will give an update when I know more. Scott 1981 46B Dealer's Choice Edisto Beach, SC
Scott Rizer 1981 46B Dealer's Choice Edisto Beach, SC
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Post by No Yacht Yet »

Scott. My 42 has the plastic rub rail on it. I bought the boat that way. I did electronics up grade and satilight tv dome over the winter and that opened my eyes up when we started running wire. Oh for the days and love of simplicity and the access of the 33!!! There are bulkheads after bulkheads and access is extreamly limited on the 42. I suspect the 46 will be the same. I have scars on my arms. From what I could see they cut the heads of the bolts off and pushed them through. New self tapping bolts with a sealer to fasten the new rail . I did find that the old rail was part of the boats bonding system. We pushed the boat last summer in 6-8 foot following sea at 25 knots. I had couple big ones a few inches away from the bottom of the pulpit. No leaks, no creaks.
Brian 1985 Bertram 42 SF Cummins QSC 600 HP Seahorse Ellisville Harbor, Ma
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Post by CSK91 »

Brian every time you badmouth that 42 you are lowering the amount of money I pay you for it.i will be sure the address your concerns about the rub rail in my offer letter
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Post by mikehedb »

Scott: I replaced my entire rub rail about 7 years ago with white PVC w/ stainless insert. It came out nice. We used screws with sealant along the way. However, during the survey after refit the insurance company wanted the front 10 feet through bolted to get an offshore rating. It wasn't a big deal because I could access in the v berth area. Good luck with the insurance company.
Mike Hedberg 1977 B33 FBC Sweet Melissa Naples, Florida
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Post by Rick »

When it comes time to my rub rail, I'm going to buy a whole new boat ! Rick Ticket 85 SF Merc 454 MPI's Falmouth, MA
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Post by dealerschoice »

I felt like the insurance company did what they could to handle the claim properly. The estimate from the boat yard included bottom job, fiberglass repair, paint from the rub rail down, 3 front curtain panels, engine monitor display and probably a few other things I can't think of right now. It came out around $42K but the kicker is the $15K deductible but I still feel like they were fair. I just hope they don't give me a big increase at renewal time. The bow rail is going to come off and I'm fairly sure we are going with the new rub rail then we'll paint from the toe rail down. About a week or 2 after the storm I received a certified letter from the marina association explaining how the boat caused damage to the dock which is leased from a private individual. (All of the slips are individually owned and overseen by the association.) I just stewed over the letter for a while until I received a 2nd one telling me I needed to have my insurance take care of the dock damage. So then I forwarded this one to the adjuster handling the claim and she seemed to be more pissed than I was. Anyhow she sent Neil Haynes of Bluewater Surveys to the marina to survey the damage of the docks which he also did the survey on the boat after the storm. Now I think a few of you have used Neil for surveys before and know how thorough he is. He called me after going to the marina and explained to me how poorly the docks were built and that he was trying to get his hands on the engineered drawings because he felt sure the drawings do not match the finished product. I'm not sure if he ever saw the drawings but the insurance company did send the association a letter saying I was not liable for the poor construction of the docks and they should seek payment elsewhere. Haven't heard anything since. I'm also looking for a set of Rupp triple riggers if anyone has a friend that may be getting a new set and would like to sell their old ones. Scott 1981 46B Dealer's Choice Edisto Beach, SC
Scott Rizer 1981 46B Dealer's Choice Edisto Beach, SC
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