What would Jesus do?

hdommert · Post by **hdommert** » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:17 pm

Ok, so I lied this is not about Jesus but just another blog about ethanol, gas and fuel tanks. I just thought people would start ignoring the subject if I wrote about it once again. A few weeks ago I wrote on this blog about finding gas in my bilge. I received some good trouble shooting tips that eliminated gas leaking from the pump and other engine components. Since there are no obvious leaks from the engines my mechanic pumped the gas out of my tank this week. This mechanic is competent; however, he is the only marine service for a 400 slip marina. Other marine mechanics have to drive at least fifty miles to service my boat. In my frustration I have contacted Worton Creek Marina, on the Chesapeake Bay specializing in the renovation of Bertram boats. The marina and boat yard is owned by John Patnovic who has resuscitated, revitalized, rejuvenated, rehabilitated and repowered dozens of Bertram 31’s over the years. My question is should I bring my boat to Worton Creek and work with this yard; does anyone have references for this marina? As a Bertram owner I have an unhealthy obsession with my boat and feel that it is not getting the attention (and love!) it deserves. Heinz J. Dommert 1986 SF Bright Raven, Summit North Marina DE

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:37 pm

Heinz, Has he quoted you on the work ? Is the job to just replace the gas tank ? Rick Ticket 85 SF Merc 454 MPI's Falmouth, MA

hdommert · Post by **hdommert** » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:14 pm

Rick - Ultimately the objective is to replace the tank. I am going down to visit Worton's facility on the weekend. I will get a quote for the tank from Worton and from my marina to compare. If I do go with Worton I will have to tow my boat down to their yard. I am trying to get ideas as to what questions to ask and whether it is worth the effort. I have spent a lot of money on the boat, surveyors and marina services, feeling that I am an Inconvenience if I ask too many questions or what a call back. I don't want to feel stuck so I am trying to do some diligence before I commit. quote:Originally posted by Rick Heinz, Has he quoted you on the work ? Is the job to just replace the gas tank ? Rick Ticket 85 SF Merc 454 MPI's Falmouth, MA Heinz J. Dommert 1986 SF Bright Raven, Summit North Marina DE

franklyprice · Post by **franklyprice** » Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:16 pm

I would say that if it's feasible at all to get the boat to a mechanic you trust and has a great reputation on Bertrams then I would do that. I have the same feelings for my boat as you do yours and it's all about getting what I want for it, done right. Otherwise it's just not as fun.

ginmax · Post by **ginmax** » Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:38 pm

Heinz, Highly recommend. John and his team are first class, very knowledgeable and competent especially with Bertrams. His team very experienced and long tenured, some 15 yrs. I have had extensive work done at his yard over the past few years; tank remove and replace, vacu flush and holding tank install, mechanical and electrical,instrumentation and joinerwork. Everything done better than good. Not cheap but fair. Ask as many questions as you like, make progess visits/calls, in fact they will call you and give progress updates. You will not leave the yard without them providing you with a full understanding and as detailed as you like of the work that they have performed. Say hello for me to John and John, (Patnovic) owner and (LaClair) his lead guy. Jeff Norris 85 FBC Annapolis, MD

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:32 pm

Heinz... Visit the Bertram 31 site .. Bertram31.com/newbb.. and ask there about Pantovic.. I have seen his name and the marina mentioned there as I recall.. I believe favorably.

hdommert · Post by **hdommert** » Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:29 pm

Frank - Nobody stops to talk to an owner of a Rinker about his boat. People have walked across 15 docks to talk about mine. quote:Originally posted by franklyprice I would say that if it's feasible at all to get the boat to a mechanic you trust and has a great reputation on Bertrams then I would do that. I have the same feelings for my boat as you do yours and it's all about getting what I want for it, done right. Otherwise it's just not as fun. Frank Price 1987 SF "Jeanne Claire" Rowley Ma [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... Claire.jpg[/img] Heinz J. Dommert 1986 SF Bright Raven, Summit North Marina DE

hdommert · Post by **hdommert** » Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:34 pm

This is a very encouraging recommendation. I will be meeting John in the next couple weeks and relay your greetings. quote:Originally posted by ginmax Heinz, Highly recommend. John and his team are first class, very knowledgeable and competent especially with Bertrams. His team very experienced and long tenured, some 15 yrs. I have had extensive work done at his yard over the past few years; tank remove and replace, vacu flush and holding tank install, mechanical and electrical,instrumentation and joinerwork. Everything done better than good. Not cheap but fair. Ask as many questions as you like, make progess visits/calls, in fact they will call you and give progress updates. You will not leave the yard without them providing you with a full understanding and as detailed as you like of the work that they have performed. Say hello for me to John and John, (Patnovic) owner and (LaClair) his lead guy. Jeff Norris 85 FBC Annapolis, MD Heinz J. Dommert 1986 SF Bright Raven, Summit North Marina DE

Post by **dougl33** » Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:16 am

Heinz, Why is it you think your tank needs to be replaced?

hdommert · Post by **hdommert** » Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:31 am

Doug - That's a good question. I went through all the trouble shooting steps recommened on this forum and did not find any probable cause for the gas in the bilge coming from the engines. This includes the fill hose and any lies from the filters. Beyond the generic I, nor does my mechanic, have any specific knowledge about Bertrams. I spoke to John at Worton creek on the phone and he says it may be coming through a limber hole. I have even talked to my insurance to see whether they will pay for investigating the root cause of the problem. I would like to verify the cause before it is assumed that it's the tank that's causing the gas in the bilge. Actually, your question is precisely why I initiated a new topic. I can’t get any straight answers from the folks I deal with at my marina, other than conjecture that it must be the tank if they can’t find the problem. That is why I am escalating this issue to someone that has experience with Bertram’s. I am certainly open to suggestions. Although I have basic mechanical skills, much of what is needed is beyond my level of abstraction. Did you ever hear about the Bertram Docs? I believe they are two guys out of FL that might have worked for Bertram. Would they be worth contacting? quote:Originally posted by dougl33 Heinz, Why is it you think your tank needs to be replaced? Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Cummins 6BTA's Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img] Heinz J. Dommert 1986 SF Bright Raven, Summit North Marina DE

Post by **dougl33** » Fri Nov 19, 2010 7:44 am

If my memory serves, you weren't getting any gas in the bilge until your mechanic worked on the boat. Is that correct?

hdommert · Post by **hdommert** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:51 am

That's right. I had an ethanol problem, as did most of the boats around me this summer. The old filter system was replaced with a higher micron system and the carburetors were rebuild. After that, gas started appearing in the bilge. One other event that occurred was that I filled the tank full for the first time since I owned the boat; went out for a day trip and filled the tank full upon my return to measure my mileage. The mileage was really low at about 1/2 mile per gallon! One thought that came to mind was that mixing the new filtering system with the old components might have caused an instability, creating pressure points that did not exist prior. quote:Originally posted by dougl33 If my memory serves, you weren't getting any gas in the bilge until your mechanic worked on the boat. Is that correct? Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Cummins 6BTA's Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img] Heinz J. Dommert 1986 SF Bright Raven, Summit North Marina DE

Post by **dougl33** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:58 am

I doubt that your tank has failed. I ran 1500 gallons of ethanol through my tank back in 2006 before I re-powered with diesels. I never had a single issue.

BECCA ROSE · Post by **BECCA ROSE** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:27 pm

Can a higher micron filter cause to much pressure somewhere? Leading to a fuel leak to release the pressure?

franklyprice · Post by **franklyprice** » Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:47 pm

I think you wasted your money on the "higher micron" filtering system. If it caused any leaks though it is because it was improperly installed. I also agree with Doug that your tank itself is probably OK , it's most likely a leak in a filter housing or a gasket on the tank or maybe the vent tube ?? I would close the fuel valves, put a couple pounds of air pressure on it and see what leaks. Bring it up here, I'll find it for you..