cat 3208's

franco · Post by **franco** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:13 am

Hi Guys, This is a truly educational site especially to novices like me. I am interested in a 33 SF in the Georgia area with cat 3208's with 270hp. I would prefer more power than that. Can the existing engines be tweaked to 350hp-375hp without major changes? A brief summary of what's involved would be welcome.Alternately,do you know a good cat guy I could talk to about this? Thanks in advance.

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 6:30 am

I don't know the answer about Cats. I looked at a boat with Detriots that I wanted to up the HP and it was really more involved than just tweaking. You may be better off looking for a boat with Cummins or Yanmars. I'm sure the guys that have Cats on this site will know more. Try asking this question on boat diesel.com too. In this market I don't think you will have a hard time finding the right boat with the right power at the right price. Buzz

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:25 am

Go with Buzz on this one. 270HP is not enough and you'll definitely want more. There's lots of boats for sale....keep looking ! Rick Ticket 85 SF Merc 454 MPI's Falmouth, MA

Post by **dougl33** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 7:35 am

Franco, Welcome aboard. I do not have Cats, but the topic has been raised before both on this site and on boatdiesel.com. The short answer is no, you cannot boost the 3208T's to 350+. I think the max for the T's is 320hp. At 300-320 HP I think they're called ST's. Anything over that requires an after cooler, thus they become 3208STA's. Even to boost the 270's to 320hp can be pricey. If you search the site, I think you'll find that the issue is with the gear boxes that were available at that time. The only ones that would fit were the Marine Gear (MG) 502's. These were limited to 270hp. Bertram had Cat derate the engines to 260-270hp. The 35's used the ST's, but they had the room for the MG507. The 37 and 38's used STA's and used a Twin Disk gear. You could probably get a different gear now that could handle the HP, but that would be pricey. I've also traded emails with folks at MG who say that the 270hp rating for the 502's is very conservative.

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 9:06 am

Franco... First off.. welcome to our sandbox.. a forum like no other! You have found the best place to get real info on a great boat! All the comments above are valid. My advice is that unless you want to plan on a repower in the next couple of years stay away from The Cat 3208 270 HP engines. They are probably the original engines, as this was pretty much the only diesel Bertram installed when the 33's were built, although I believe there were a few sold with higher HP 3208 engines. They were a fine engine, strong and dependable, but have not been made by Cat for quite a few years, and I suspect parts availability might be an issue. Also they are very heavy.. my boat had them originally and was repowered by the previous owner with Cummins 315 HP engines.. this removed so much weight the exhaust outlets in the transom rose a couple of inches. Upping the power of 3208s has been discussed on the boatdiesel.com forum, and while it might be theoretically possible it is financially impractical.. too many expensive parts need to be changed. With the depressed prices of boats today, if you are set on a Bertram 33 with diesels there are plenty around for sale.. keep looking. Most of us here feel these boats, which weigh in the neighborhood of 23,000 - 24,000 pounds, need 600 plus HP to perform at their potential, and a good repower with Cummins or Yanmar with 315 - 330 HP engines is ideal. BTW.. also stay away from the cat 3116 series engines as well.. a long story but these engines have a bad reputation, some of which is deserved, and some not deserved. And a final word on diesels.. they are expensive to buy and expensive to repair, but they last longer than gassers, and get better MPG, however today's gas and diesel prices have made the last issue less of a benefit. The real issue for a diesel boat buyer is what is the availability of service in the area you use your boat? Both Cummins and Yanmar are great engines, the real decision is how easy is it for you to get help when you need it. As you probably know, this forum is a great place to ask questions and get believable answers.. many of us were in the same situation you are once, so don't hesitate to ask whatever question you have.

franco · Post by **franco** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 11:37 am

Thanks for the responses. You have been really supportive.I will continue to comb yachtworld for a good deal. I understand what is being said about the diesels. What about the gas power? What paramaters would you set? I have seen posts referring to ethanol and the possible impact on fiberglass tanks. Is this a real issue and how do you guys cope with it?

lwrenn · Post by **lwrenn** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:24 pm

The 3208 260 hp is damn near indestructible. Every part I have needed is in stock at the Cat dealer. I have about 2500 hours on them and they run well. The re power is expensive but the extra speed is nice if conditions let you muse it. I can hit 23 knot wot and cruise comfortably at 14 to 16 knots depending on load. I do have a full tower so I have a little more weight than most other boats. The Yanmars seem to be gaining popularity (not with and the rpm thing and the parts prices will kill you) but I am seeing more and more of them. The Cummings are a nice engine and would a good engine but to gain forty horses per side its a lot of money. I do want to sell my boat but the options I have added will not be a bargain priced boat. Captain Larry Wren 305-360-4900 www.apirateschoice.com [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... Choice.jpg[/img]

Post by **dougl33** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:38 pm

Franco, Ethanol has been discussed many times. You can do a seach on the site and find loads of info. This is long thread, but its still got lots of great info: http://www.bertram33.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=448 I feel that ethanol issues are related to the year of the boat. If you have a tank made from mid-1985 and up I think you should be OK. Others will disagree. 454's are fine. They will cruise the SF at 19-20 knots and burn around 30gph. These boats are really built to cruise at 20+ knots. The difference in ride between 16-18 knots and 20+ is unbelievable. It really makes it feel like a completely different boat. I have an FBC, but with 454's I would cruise 18-19 knots and burn 30-32gph. Now with 300hp 6BTA Cummins I cruise at 23-24 knots and burn 20-22 gph. I also feel that you don't really need 350-375hp to move these boats along at a comfortable speed. 300-330hp per side should do it.

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:10 pm

If I wanted a diesel boat I would buy a diesel boat that someone else had already repowered. Let them take the loss. There are to many 33's around that have been repowered. It's a great time to be buying not selling. Buzz

CB35 · Post by **CB35** » Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:38 pm

There is and will be no parts issues on 3208's for many many years. Cat parts are not cheap; no diesel engine part is; but Cat 3208 parts are lots cheaper them most. There will probably be parts issues with cummins 6BT's long before the 3208's have any issues. You can still buy Factory long blocks and remans are available everywhere. 3208 had a production run of over 35 years; only stopped by EPA emission requirements.

tmarshall · Post by **tmarshall** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:50 am

When I bought my 33sf the Survey Mechanic who is a CAT god told me that by just adjusting the fuel pump regulator you could easily be looking at 300hp with 270 HP 3208Ts. He also said it was a bad idea because the 3208 was designed to handle 300 hp or less. You can do 3208TAs that make 420-440 but they will last a tenth as long as a 270hp 3208T. When running the 270s you are putting stresses on the engine and components that are well below their design threshold thus substantially extending their life. I have 3208Ts and I love them. They are the 270s and they cruise at about 21 knots and thats about as fast as I need to go, thats just me though. Parts availability is not an issue. Any CAT dealer will have every part you need. I have not had to buy too many parts though. Any person who works in the marine industry will tell you that 3208ts are tough, reliable and low maintenance, If you maintain them and run them how they are supposed to be run they will generally outlast the boat owner. Dont get me wrong every time I take a big trip of 150 miles plus it does cross my mind that I have these "old" engines in my boat and that any day something expensive is going to happen. My mechanic tells me that the engines are in tip top shape and I take great care of them and there is nothing to worry about for a very long time. I often ponder what I will do when the inevitable expensive problem happens. Reman 3208s or 6BTs??? New stuff is awesome but my 3208s have been so tough and reliable that I would have a hard time making the switch.

franklyprice · Post by **franklyprice** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:18 pm

I agree that the cats are great motors, built in the days of big iron and low RPM's. Couldn't someone remove their engines, rebuild things as necessary , including all things on the outside of the engine that rotate or rot away(hoses come to mind) and maybe up the HP a little bit and then have 20 plus more years of happy boating with these things? Not as light or easy to get around as an in line six but still viable, wouldn't you think? If mine came with 3208's, that's what I'd have done..

h2ojst · Post by **h2ojst** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:09 am

Frank, Thom's CAT guy is right on the money. The 3208 is a workhorse as long as you keep it where it was originally meant to run. That is naturally aspirated. When CAT started to up the horsepower with turbos and aftercoolers, that's when they start to come apart quickly. I'd definately rebuild the old 3208 if that's what I had & turn it slow with huge wheels. Joe Tomaini 1988 Sportfish Attitude Adjustment II Fort Lauderdale, FL

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:12 am

21kts cruising is fast enough for me too. When you say the boat will cruise at 21kts with 32108's is that the top end of the cruising RPM? With the Cummins you can cruise at 21k anywhere from 2100 to 2200. Not even near the top end of cruising RPM. I do like having the extra speed when I want to get somewhere a little faster. That's the reason I looked for a boat that had been repowered with Cummins or Yanmars. If I owned a boat with the 3208's, I would rebuild them when needed and not change over to Cummins in order to same money. If you want a boat that will give you more speed than the Cat's then I would buy one that had already been repowered. I still believe it will be cheaper in the long run. For me, the deciding factor on getting a boat powered with Cat's or Cummins would be price. Which ever one I could get the best deal on. But I would want diesel in a 33 Bertram. Buzz

CB35 · Post by **CB35** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:27 pm

Turn it slow with huge wheels. Come on man. The engines should be propped at 2850 WOT at max crusing load. What ever wheel that requires is the only answer. 3208's are not slow turning diesel engines. They are designed to run at 2850 with max sustained cruising at 2500 rpms. Most of us run at 2300-2400 all day long. Once you get above 375 HP you start to get into trouble. If you run offshore often there is no substitute for displacement. 2 tons of cast iron in the bilge makes for a better headsea ride with very little rock and roll. Maybe someday I will give up my 3208 Cats; but I never want to give up the ride they give. Sure when the ocean is flat you can windup those cummins, yanamars, 3216's and just blow by me. I like the way I roll 20kts in damn near anything. But I want a ride in John D's rocketship 3126 35B' but bring on the 3-5's then we will race.