1977 FBC Repower

Bishop · Post by **Bishop** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:59 am

I have read most of the posts under "repower" and am cognizant of the current thread regarding Rissa's 1977 repower. I, too, have a 1977 FBC and have narrowed my choices to either remanufactured 454s or new 8.1s (although I would be open to suggestion if I missed an option). My first question is it worth rebuilding raw water cooled 454s that have been sitting idle for about four years (they were new long blocks in 1999 and have only about 250 hours on them)? Secondly, what are the advantages of the new 8.1s? They are obviously more powerful, and more efficient, but are there other benefits? How much do they cost (per engine) installed? Any additional input on the topic would be greatly appreciated! William

Post by **dougl33** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:22 am

William, I would say that ease/time of maintenance is another benefit of the 8.1's. You don't need to change the plugs, caps, rotors, and wires as often/at all. On the other hand if something does go wrong with the fuel injected engines it can be tough to diagnose and or work on yourself. Some guys like the fact that they can re-build the carbs themselves if necessary. I'm not one of those guys. An installed cost is a hard estimate to give. The cost of one engine and trans alone is around $13.5K. Installation depends on many different variables, including: your location, how much you're willing/able to complete yourself, etc... Also, as anyone who's repowered will tell you things add up pretty fast once you're into it. I.E. Since the engines are out you may decide to thoroughly clean and paint the bilges, you may want to add an oil change system, you may want to install dripless shaft seals, increase shaft size, change props, strip/barrier coat the bottom, if you had a crappy wall to wall carpet (like I did) you may want to either put down new carpet or install teak and holley since the old stuff has to come up anyway, etc... None of the above necessarilly need to be done to re-power, but it would be a good time to do them if so inlcined. You could probably spend as little as $35K-$40K total if you wanted. Or much more. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:57 pm

William, I like the 454's mine pushed my B35 reliably, although slow, and in a way I hated to pull them out. First, there's no way I'd put a raw water coold motor in B33, unless perhaps I was in the Great Lakes. Also, I would touch a rw block with a 20ft pole. The answers to your questions really depend on how much of the work you're going to do vs. paying for the work to be done. I think the only way 454's make sense is if you don't have to pay someone to do the work, other than lifting them out/in. If you can get the long block and transfer everything yourself you could probably get away with $5-7k per motor. Once you have to pay someone to do the work that number will jump up to the cost of new or more. Other than power and efficiency, new 8.1's should give you quicker and better throttle response and better resale value over rebuilding 454's. Also, if you take full advantage of the new electronics you'll get better engine monitoring and even synchornization. Also I'd think a little better piece of mind knowing everything is new and tight. Good luck with you're choice. -John John D "Lady D" Bertram 35 Pasadena MD

rnanaples · Post by **rnanaples** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:09 am

Anyone want to hazrd a guess as to what kind of cruise speed one might get out of installing 450 cummings ?

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 2:14 pm

If you are talking about a B33 I am sure others agree with me that installing a pair of 450 HP anything is a waste of horsepower as well as some money. The largest HP I am aware of with the participants here in a B33 is Cummins 6B 370s. Most of the guys here with Cummins have the 315/330s and can get 22-23 knots cruising and 26-27 WOT. The boats with Cummins 6B 370s get proportionally more speed, probably with a proportionally higher fuel burn. I suspect much over 380-400 HP might tend to bury the bow at high speed, causing problematic handling. Just my opinion, but you will get other people's opinions soon here I am sure. I am sure if you wanted to install 900 HP in a B33 you would have lots of interested people here reading about your performance! Frank B - IRGuy@aol.com "Phoenix" 1983 FBC Wilmington, NC

Post by **dougl33** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:06 pm

Way to much power. You'd never use all the HP. As Frank stated above, with 300-330hp in diesels you can cruise all day at 21-23 knots. Anything more than 370hp is waste of money. There is one 33 FBC (formerly known as 4 Bells) that has 420hp Cat 3126's. I don't believe its any faster than a boat with the 370hp Cummins 6BTA's. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:29 pm

I have the 315/330 Cummins and cruise all day around 21 to 23 knotts which is fine but if I was installing new engines I would go with the 370 Cummins but anything more would be a waste. Buzz buzzk 1988 Bertram 33 FBC Buzz Off Morehead City, NC

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 6:54 pm

I should be able to tell how 420hp is in a B35, but alass the repower drags on so I'll have to update later. I agree that over 400hp would only provide marginal improvement to usable speed. However noting wrong with having it and not needing it. I will say one thing, repowering a B33 FB would be a lot easier than a B35 you have much more enging room clearence for a taller motor. So unless you're like me and stumble on a good deal on 400+ motors, I'd go for cummins 370's or Yanmars or new QSM's. John D "Lady D" Bertram 35 Pasadena MD

CB35 · Post by **CB35** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:06 am

Sorry guys; but I must disagree. Cummins 370's making 21-23kts is a waste of money. For a few dollars more it makes dollars and sense to get more speed. Getting there faster and better resale. At 28kts my 35B runs real nice. That is WOT on my 3208Cats 300HP. John is no the right track going with 420HP Cats. 450 HP would not be to much. You can control the HP by how far you push the throttles. That also controls the fuel burn. Charlie

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 5:54 am

With 370HP I would assume that a 33 would cruise faster than 21-23 kts. I cruise my 33 with 315/330HP at 21-23 kts. My boat is close to square at 2100 I run around 21 kts and at 2300 around 22-24 kts depending on the current. At 2400 around 24 knots. My gear ratio of 1.750:1 is a little different from most of the guys on this site. I just don't run my engines hard. Buzz buzzk 1988 Bertram 33 FBC Buzz Off Morehead City, NC

Post by **dougl33** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 6:50 am

Unless you're getting the 450's for free, they're a waste of money. The 370's will push you along at 24-27 knots. 300/330's will cruise at 21-23 knots. Remember CB, we're talking about a 33 not a 35. I agree with you that John is on the right track with his 420 Cats. The 35 is longer and wider than the 33. The simple fact is that you don't need more the 370/380 to cruise the 33's at 27 knots. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

rnanaples · Post by **rnanaples** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:51 am

Allright i found a good deal on TAMD 61 Volvo's 305 HP anyone wnat to comment on what kind of performace specs I will get on my 33 FBC

Post by **dougl33** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:12 am

Rich, I'm not sure of the size and weight of the Volvo's, but I have 300hp Cummins 6BTA's in my boat. They weigh about the same as the 454's I removed. As has been said elsewhere on this site, most of the Cummins 300-330hp guys are getting similar numbers. A cruise of 22-23 knots at 2400 rpms and a top speed of 28-29 knots at 2900+ rpms. The 300-330hp 6BTA's are rated at 2800rpms. Fuel burn is around 20 gph at cruise. What is the weight and rpms for the Volvos? I know very little about them other than they can be hard to get service and parts for in some areas. Prior to purchase, I would research your locale to guage the support level you're likely to receive. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 11:38 am

Volvo's, people seem to swear at them or swear by them. I used to fish on a friends 29 Blackfin that had Volvo's and they were fine but I remember him complaining about the cost of parts. Buzz buzzk 1988 Bertram 33 FBC Buzz Off Morehead City, NC

rnanaples · Post by **rnanaples** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 2:26 pm

thnaks for the post seeing what the cost of going with 370's from the other guy that just got done I thinl I will set my sights on the 300 or 315 cummins. CAn I get away with my small shafts 1.25 if I go with the 300 cummins ? quote:Originally posted by dougl33 Rich, I'm not sure of the size and weight of the Volvo's, but I have 300hp Cummins 6BTA's in my boat. They weigh about the same as the 454's I removed. As has been said elsewhere on this site, most of the Cummins 300-330hp guys are getting similar numbers. A cruise of 22-23 knots at 2400 rpms and a top speed of 28-29 knots at 2900+ rpms. The 300-330hp 6BTA's are rated at 2800rpms. Fuel burn is around 20 gph at cruise. What is the weight and rpms for the Volvos? I know very little about them other than they can be hard to get service and parts for in some areas. Prior to purchase, I would research your locale to guage the support level you're likely to receive. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]