Engine Replacements for 1977 Bertram

Rissa · Post by **Rissa** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 5:21 am

It says a lot about a Bertram to still be in love with a boat after you have had so many initial problems. They really are great boats. We are not looking so much for speed; we just want to be able to cruise around 20mph. We found that to be a comfortable speed to travel, during the few moments of our old engines running OK. We had a couple of mechanics say we should check into getting 4 cylinder Yanmar diesels. They say they have plenty of torque to push a 33' at around 20mph. The expense of going diesel is daunting. The increase in the value to the boat is a consideration though. We also had a mechanic tell us we could use the new 350 Chevy engines. (Not rebuilt) He also says the torque is so improved in the 350's these engines would do fine for us. We got a turn key price on the 350's of $22000.00 which would include; new engines, transmissions, shafts, throttles, and steering. I have to say the price is right, just not sure if those engines would be enough to power the boat. Another mechanic told us to use 496's, since they no longer make the 454's. We have a nice spring project ahead with lots of varying opinions. A little more imput is always good in such cases. Marissa DeWitt "Miss Missy" Ocala, FL 1977 33 FBC

Post by **dougl33** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:38 am

Rissa, Whomever is advising you to go with either the 4cyl Yanmars or the 350's is incorrect and doesn't know anything about these boats. These are very heavy deep v hulls. At 20mph (17.4 knots) the hull is not fully on plane. To constantly cruise at that speed, in my opinion, is very hard on the engines. The boat is not really fully on plane until about 21-22mph (18.5-19 knots). At that speed the wake flattens out and the boat gives a better ride. The 4 cyl Yanmars and the 350's are too small. Either engine would be running riht on the edge to push the boat at your required speed. I know you just got the boat, but down the road you'll have to worry about re-sale value. No one will want to buy the boat with either of those engine choices. Ever. Just ask the guy from Alabama on yachtworld who has the 4cyl Yanmars in his 33 SF. His boat's been for sale for 4 years. There are 3 viable choices: 1. Re-built 454's. 2. 496's (either Mercruiser or Crusader). Figure on 13.5K each for trans and engine. 3. In-line 6cyl diesels (Cat, Cummins, Yanmar, Volvo). The cost of the Cummins re-mans (in reality brand new engines) is around $23K each for trans and engine. If you go with option 1 or 2 you would not need new shafts. Of course it all depends on the condtion of your shafts. Shoot, depending on the hp level diesels you may not have to re-shaft even then. Not sure why you'd need new steering. The choice really comes down to this. How long do you plan on keeping the boat, and how much can afford to spend? Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 6:55 am

Marissa... Drop me an email note when you get a chance please. Frank B - IRGuy@aol.com "Phoenix" 1983 FBC Wilmington, NC

Capt. Ed · Post by **Capt. Ed** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:01 am

Rissa, Doug is 100% on target with what he is telling you. Search the forum here for "repower" and read it, you will gain a ton of knowledge fast. 8.1L gas and 300+hp diesels have been the favorites choices. Good luck, Ed

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:07 am

quote:Originally posted by dougl33The 4 cyl Yanmars and the 350's are too small. Doug is completely right - you're getting some terrible engine advice. Sean Burlingham "Island Time" 1987 Bertram 33 SF Melbourne, FL SBurlingham@cfl.rr.com [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... d_Time.jpg[/img]

Rissa · Post by **Rissa** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:35 am

I was very afraid of what you are saying. Seems to me if those engines were so great, more people would use them. Potential resale value is always part of what you decide to do. This is the best time for us to decide about going diesel or staying gas. We still have one engine. We will have the new parts we bought for the engine that blew, put on the other engine. Hopefully we can sell it and recover a little. I just want a WARRANTARY on whatever we do. We just need to replace all the hoses for the steering, since the lines literally spray steering fluid everywhere. [B)] Marissa DeWitt "Miss Missy" Ocala, FL 1977 33 FBC

Post by **dougl33** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:07 am

Here's the boat with Yanmars. Its been for sale for about 4 years[B)]: http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/ ... 70331&url= For the record, I hate yachtworld's new format.[xx(] Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:29 am

Doug... Cruise at 20 knots and max at 24 knots with 480 theoretical diesel HP available? Can you say "MISREPRESENTATION" or "OVERPROPPED"? Frank B - IRGuy@aol.com "Phoenix" 1983 FBC Wilmington, NC

Post by **dougl33** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:53 am

Big time. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

Capt. Ed · Post by **Capt. Ed** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:45 pm

I would like to see him demo that 24kt WOT.

dealerschoice · Post by **dealerschoice** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:36 pm

Rissa, I have repowered a B31 and a B28. Both were gas to diesel. Kept B31 17 years and got every penny back because we got in on the new diesel conversion craze early on. Kept B28 3 years and lost about 30k. Always remember, there is only one substitute for horsepower and that is more horsepower. Boats are very happy creatures when they have enough horsepower to do more than you expect them to. You will be especially happy because of fuel economy, engine reliability, engine longevity, and resale value. Good Luck, Scott

captgene · Post by **captgene** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:31 am

Rissa, I just repowered my boat this year. I got $3K for both engines and transmissions. So don't expect too much return for one running Mine had 2200 hrs, but were running just ok. I also agree with every word said against the 4 cyl Yanmar & the 350 block GM. Just not enough torque for these boats. The inline 6 diesels (Yanmar or Cummins) or the 8.1 GMs are choice engines that make the boat go. You can do the reman 454, but you will more than make up the difference in fuel costs with the new technology 8.1. Gene Dugan Boca Raton, Fl. "Nauti Marie" 1989 33 FBC

Mike_Lenz · Post by **Mike_Lenz** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:37 pm

I have the 8.1 Crusades in my Bertram 35 and I am very pleases with them. On my trip from Maryland to Lake Ontario I averaged .7-.8 miles per/gal. I cruise her between 3000 - 3100 rps and averaged between 19.8 to 22 kts at 28-30 gal/per/hr. I don’t need to run offshore very far fishing on Lake Ontario so I didn’t feel Diesels were the way to go for me. When I troll I shut one engine down and I only burn about 2 gal/per/hr Good luck, Mike…

billb · Post by **billb** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:31 am

if you have one good engine, just buy one reman or one new one...simple....why spend all that money....just enjoy the boat for a while..then down the road...if funds are available,figure in diesels....but it is very hard to justify the expense over gas, unless you purchase the boat with diesels to begin with....I am sure you can find a reman short block for around 4000 and put on your accessories...

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:14 am

Although I have diesels and love my boat. I agree with Bill and I would put a short block in and enjoy the boat. That way you will be sure that you like the boat before spending a lot of money on diesels. Buzz buzzk 1988 Bertram 33 FBC Buzz Off Morehead City, NC