Repower

lobsta1 · Post by **lobsta1** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:23 am

Tim, I believe Crusader uses a stock GM ECM. I believe Merc has a proprietary ECM that cost about $1800.00 to replace. Don't know about the big blocks but they had serious problems with the 6.0's. I have seen several posts on other forums where people couldn't get over 3500 rpm & then dropping from there. Problem turned out to be the ECM saying the engine was running 42 degrees hot, so the ECM was limiting the engine. I think the 385 vs 370 is just marketing hype. Al 1978 33 FBC NITES OFF

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:49 pm

Al, i agree on the ecm being better on crusader. As far as the heat limiting problem that you hear about merc is that a recent problem or is that linked back to the problem they fixed after the 2001 problem? Do you know if the merc manifolds are fwc like the crusader is? Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

lobsta1 · Post by **lobsta1** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:13 pm

Tim, if the link comes out, here's one discussion from the boatered engine forum last updated on 1/3/2005' http://www.boatered.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=59599 I've seen other discussions in the past on other forums. Time to go to bed now. Off in the morning to ski on some of our frozen water! Al 1978 33 FBC NITES OFF

captgene · Post by **captgene** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:19 am

Good question on the FWC Manafolds on the Merc. I mentioned in a earlier post on of my friends went tot he 502 and the BW 5000 gears. I was shocked to see the exhaust manafolds were Raw water cooled. He has replaced not only the risers 2 times , but manafolds too. I think about $1200 in parts. I would sure check that out on the new 8.1 Mercs. That would sink that deal in a heartbeat if they still had raw water in there. Don't know why the 502 was that way. E.W. Dugan

Post by **dougl33** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:26 am

Now I remember. That was what the Crusader dealer told me 2 years ago. That the only part of their system that wasn't FW was the risers/elbows. He made it a point to tell me that the Merc manifolds were not FW. Personally, that just cements my belief that Crusader is the way to go. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:44 am

I called mercruiser today and they told me that they also started cooling the manifolds last year....and yes i am still waiting for install estimates.One of the biggest marinas came out and measured for installation and told me the 8.1's were too tall and could not be installed .i was shocked that they said that. i have measured it 3 times and i dont understand where they are getting there figures Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

lobsta1 · Post by **lobsta1** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:41 pm

If a Cummins 330 can fit, I find it hard to believe that a V8 gas won't. http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertra ... marine.pdf Is Merc's customization so different from the GM specs? Al 1978 33 FBC NITES OFF

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:20 am

ok billb how about buying an engine right from gm? i wonder what that would cost and what would you need to add to it to make it work besides manifolds and risers? Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:44 am

al, its the same engine.it should fitthe only place i see it tight is on the oil pan on the cross stringer because the engine will be lower in the front that is another reason to move the engine back 6"because i think that will put the lowest part of the oil pan behind that stringer. I looked at a neighbors 33fbc yesterday he has 3208 cats wow, if they can squeeze those beasts in there then there should not be any trouble. he had an 83 the cats had 1300 hours and the boat was enron painted which cost a whopping 30k to do.and it is for sale if anyone is interrested in a diesel. Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

lobsta1 · Post by **lobsta1** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:50 am

Tim, could it be the physical fit is not the problem? Maybe the height of the elbows is not far enough above the waterline. I understand due to the valve overlap & water ingestion problems, this is a critical dimension. Al 1978 33 FBC NITES OFF

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 6:26 am

i dont think that is the problem.the problem is that with the mpi stuff on top it makes the engine taller.i just had another installer here and he too was concerned about the height he is going to work the numbers and dimensions and get back to me.personally i think they will fit and it is just a matter of gettiing them lowered in and then see what modifications need to be done it might be that the engines have to be moved back so it will be lower because if you put longer shafts on at the angle coming in the boat the longer the shafts the higher the engine sits and vice versa if the engine slides back 6"to meet the shaft the oil pan might hit the stringer so who knows the engine may have to be moved back 3"and have to put new shafts on.....lol and as far as water ingestion this should not be a problem with fwc manifolds as i dont think that ingestion is possible. Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

lobsta1 · Post by **lobsta1** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 9:11 am

Tim, it's not a ??? of FWC vs raw water, but of the intake & exhaust valve opening times overlapping. At least that's the way I understand it. Maybe someone else more mechanically inclined can jump in & clarify it for both of us. http://my.boatus.com/forum/forum_posts. ... +ingestion Al 1978 33 FBC NITES OFF

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 9:43 am

when i talked to mercruiser they told me that the design was changed last year to prevent ingestion...not that i trust the phone handlers at mercruiser (they dont sound like rocket scientists).i too would welcome anyone who knows for sure. Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

captgene · Post by **captgene** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:25 am

Don't quote me, but I was told to use the 8-10 degree down angle gear so the 8.1 will sit level on the stringer. Note the intake on the front of the engine may be higher if it is tilted. Still I find it hard to believe they won't fit in there. E.W. Dugan

Post by **dougl33** » Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:54 am

Does anyone know what the dimensions are for the 454? I know the dimensions for the 8.1 Crusader are as follows: L - 43.5 inches W - 32.8 inches H - 31.4 inches Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth