Engine Replacements for 1977 Bertram

MrJohn · Post by **MrJohn** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:49 pm

Just got back from 2 weeks of deer hunting and finally got rid of the sea legs and the brine out of my eyes.[:D] Thanks much for all of the info directed to Rissa (da wife). I'll be making a few phone calls here within the next few days and try and get a grip on what exactly is going to be done, time frame and cost. Any additional thoughts are greatly appreciated. The idea of 350s or 4 cyl yanmars is out the window. Next! [8D]

Post by **dougl33** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:26 pm

John, Basically it comes down to what you want to spend, how you think you'll use the boat, and how long you plan to keep it. The only reason I re-powered with diesels is because I got a great deal on a set of running take outs. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

Miss B · Post by **Miss B** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 4:23 pm

Reverse Rotation involves both the camshaft, to change the firing order of the second cylinder and the last cylinder, and the use of timing gears instead of a timing chain. The standard rotation (called Left Hand) firing order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2, and in a reverse motor (called Right Hand) the rotation is 1-2-7-5-6-3-4-8. Timing gears are used on a RH engine. You can get a new GM manufactured block from your local Chevy dealer, part # 24502618, 454 block designed for a carb and HEI ignition, and convert it to marine use by changing head gaskets, manifold, cam and timing gears to get the rotation you need, or you can just get yourself a Hurth transmission that will run in either direction and use a standard rotation 454 block. This block has 8.75 to one compression, and will run on unleaded gas. It has a boss for a mechanical fuel pump as well. You would need to add your marine cooling system to it. Preferred Marine in Bradenton, Fl built my engines for me.

MrJohn · Post by **MrJohn** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:31 am

The new 496, with 425 HP, looks appealing. Would putting one of these in and running my other 454 for another year cause any complications? I assume the more HP, the less stress on the engine at cruising speed, or am I totally out there in left field? [:)]

Post by **dougl33** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:52 am

John, There's no way you'd want to do that. It'd be way more trouble than it would be worth. Its like comparing apples to dump trucks. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

Miss B · Post by **Miss B** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:14 pm

I am a non high tech person when it comes to marine engines. I prefer a carb over fuel injection as it is far easier to troubleshoot in a seaway when everybody is looking at your backside when you are face down in the bilge wondering if you can get those puppies to fire up again. I switched to a Delco HEI system because of its proven reliability. I still use mechanical fuel pumps on my engines, easier to troubleshoot. Today's auto engines and their marine counterparts are far too technical to deal with when you are away from your own slip and you have a breakdown. I prefer to have just two problems, either spark or fuel related, rather than to deal with pressure sensors, individual coil/plug combinations, manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensors, throttle body sensors, ambient air temperature and vacuum pressure sensors, and a host of other problems, caused by dirty terminals, bad grounds and high resistance in wires that run the computer related crud hung on today's engines. In fact, at one time a major engine manufacturer used the engine body as a source of the negative (-) lead for engine monitoring components. That worked great for about a year until the salt water in the engine cooling systems created a brine perfect for electrolysis and ate up intake manifolds and water cooled engine components. If I am out in the ocean and I have a breakdown, it is either spark or fuel related, one or the other. I like the fact that I am a cave man, and I can find almost all of my engine faults with a dwell meter, timing light or an inexpensive ohm meter. Yeah, fuel injected engines run smooth, they idle well, but then so does a 454 block with a Rochester carb that has been tubulated through the fuel idle circuits and set up properly, with the right timing set on the engine, and no vacuum leaks and will be almost as economical, at half the cost of an injected motor. A good, and I mean a good, mechanic, one that grew up racing Chevy engines, can set up a 454 to run properly and give the horsepower curve you want, by selecting the right camshaft for your valve body to give you the low end torque you need to get out of the hole, and still provide you with the upper end torque required to run in excess of 20 knots. A 454 block is a four bolt main, with thick walls and almost a square bore to stroke ratio. It is ALL cast iron, no aluminum hiding inside. Spare engine parts are plentiful and cheap. There is alot you can do with this engine if you know what you are doing, and for a heck of alot less than a fuel injected 8.1. Plus you can still troubleshoot it yourself after it is set up properly. Throw on a Crusader cooling system with the rear risers, NOT the center riser style, and it uses a clean water hose design and no funky little ones to carry as spares and you are good to go.

Post by **dougl33** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 5:36 am

Tom, The one thing the 8.1's have over the 454's is speed. You can cruise at 22-23 knots with the 8.1's burning the same fuel that you do at 18-19 knots with the 454's. If you've ever been in a 33 cruising at 22-23 knots you understand that this is where these boats were meant to run. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 6:10 am

Doug.. Re: Speed and B33s.. When we brought "Phoenix" home last December I opened the engines up to 2,600 RPM for about 10 minutes as we crossed the mouth of the Cape Fear River.. and hit about 24.5 - 25 knots with a slight chop due to a 10+/- headwind.. The change in feel and handling between 22 and 24 knots was incredible. As I said in a post just after the trip.. at 24 knots she seemed "happier".. (and I was too!). Frank B - IRGuy@aol.com "Phoenix" 1983 FBC Wilmington, NC

Rissa · Post by **Rissa** » Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:53 am

I want to thank all of you for all your help and advice. It is most appreciated. Marissa DeWitt "Miss Missy" Ocala, FL 1977 33 FBC

rnanaples · Post by **rnanaples** » Mon Dec 24, 2007 11:36 am

I wonder what would happen if you put some whipple chargers running a low boost on the 454's ? quote:Originally posted by dougl33 Tom, The one thing the 8.1's have over the 454's is speed. You can cruise at 22-23 knots with the 8.1's burning the same fuel that you do at 18-19 knots with the 454's. If you've ever been in a 33 cruising at 22-23 knots you understand that this is where these boats were meant to run. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

Post by **dougl33** » Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:48 pm

Rich, My knee jerk reaction is to say it'd be more trouble then it would be worth. At the very least I think service life would go down the toilet. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

No Yacht Yet · Post by **No Yacht Yet** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:27 am

Rich, I knew someone that Turbo Charged a brand new 454 in a small race boat some years ago with low boost. He ended up with a rod threw the side of the block and a bildge full off oil first time off the trailer. You have to build the motor to handle the extra stress = big $$$ Brian

rnanaples · Post by **rnanaples** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:16 am

I have done it quoite a few times in smaller boats with no adverse effects. I believe it may not be so great wit hte weight you would be pushing here. Low boost was always the key. Has anyone heard of the max power diesels sure does look like a neat little package. They only offer a 1 year warranty though and this day and age that is a little scary. quote:Originally posted by No Yacht Yet Rich, I knew someone that Turbo Charged a brand new 454 in a small race boat some years ago with low boost. He ended up with a rod threw the side of the block and a bildge full off oil first time off the trailer. You have to build the motor to handle the extra stress = big $$$ Brian

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:17 am

Brian... How is the boat search coming along? Frank B - IRGuy@aol.com "Phoenix" 1983 FBC Wilmington, NC

No Yacht Yet · Post by **No Yacht Yet** » Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:37 am

Frank, I have the boat. You might have me confused with someone else. The boat is in Plymouth Boat Yard with your friends. I'm the guy you put in touch with Tom DeMann. I have a huge problem at my house, septic backed up into the cellar two days ago. Makes a holding tank odor smell like beach roses (LOL) It is an old system and I fear the worst. Diesels may be on hold. I will know for sure this afternoon. Brian