Bertram33 User Forum

The story sure is generating a lot of buzz now: Baltimore Sun Article

"How do you know if you are putting gas with ethanol into your tank? Most of the marinas don't have to post that. The only way someone can find out is to ask the people who run the marina, and some of them don't know." That is the biggest bull**** statement yet

Just wait, I predict there will be several class action suits filed against the ethanol producers, the gas distributors, and marinas that sell it for either damages or death over the issue of failing to provide adequate notice and safety information to the boating public at large. 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR BERTRAM PRIDE '06 yet? DO IT NOW... SPACE IS LIMITED!

Well, Here's what I am going to do. Right now my tank is within about 20 gallons of being empty . I took out the fuel sender to look into the tank and saw nothing that looked too scary , some light varnish on the sides of everything and smooth surfaces everywhere, baffles and gelcoated sides of the tank. I was looking for water and couldn't find any , so hoping I'm OK there. I plan to put about 50 gallons in this weekend and run it out the same day. After that, I'll check the filters and if everything looks Ok, I'll put in 100 or 150 gallons. If I keep out of trouble that way, and I don't expect any, the trip to Oak Bluffs should be fine. After that, I'll have to keep an eye on the tank to see if there is any degredation there for the rest of the summer. During the winter I may pull the tank and make a mold off of it to make a vinylester tank if they aren't available yet, or I may make one out of stainless . Not sure about that yet but the way things are going, even if the tanks hold up to the ethanol, there is so much hype and paranoia about these tanks failing , that it is just a matter of time before you have to have a new tank or our boats will be a hard sell. Isurance companies will not want to insure a gas Bertram, etc. Think about that while we freak out with half the information and far less than accurate studies on the subject of ethanol and our gas tanks..

Just read On the subject of water and ethanol fuel. It stated that the ethanol gas actually pulls water out of the air like a sponge. The piece stated to make sure you keep your tank full and to use it. Do not let it sit for long periods like winter layup. To see what it does, take a sample of the fuel and add some water to it. In acouple of minutes it will seperate. Gas on top with water and ethanol on the bottom. Tanks draw from the bottom. Picture 100 percent of alcohol and water going through your engine. This info was in the fisherman Mag. Mike

That's assuming that there is water either in your tank or in the fuel you're pumping in. I am not worried about water in my tank. I agree with Pascoe's article that condensation in the tank is a bunch of BS. Any water that will find its way in is via the fuel dock. I plan on using Startron fuel additive with every tank full. I have spoken with a techie at their company and they assured me that this product is not dry gas but that it breaks the water down at the molecular level (it sounded good anyway!?). Most of the issues we've been hearing about have been from boats/owners that didn't know anything about ethanol before they started filling their tanks (i.e the Long Island Sound/NY area). Meaning that there are too many variables to know what is causing tank degredation. Did the fuel docks those guys used clean their tanks before taking on their first load of ethanol? The fuel docks in New England have known that ethanol was coming and most have done very little to prepare for it other than emptying their tanks prior to their first load. Given that the LI/NY fuel docks didn't have much info before they started selling ethanol, I'm sure most didn't do anything to prep. I'll bet they didn't even drain their tanks before they got their first shipment of ethanol. They probably just mixed the MBTE with the ethanol and went on pumping gas. Did the fuel docks at least try and remove any water that may have been in their tanks? Did the boats/owners simply add ethanol to half a tank or so of MTBE? Again, given that they didn't have any idea it was going to be a problem, they probably just topped off their tanks and went on their way. In their defense, why would they have done anything else not knowing the possible impact at that time. So, maybe its a combination of factors that is causing the issue. New gas and old gas along with a good slug of water and debris that causes phase seperation and a large volume of alcohol and water at the bottom of the tank. I did speak with my insurance agent yesterday and she told me that she did hear of one carrier (though she wouldn't tell me the name of the company) that has already decided to non-renew any gas powered boats with fiberglass tanks. My carrier (One Beacon) has not yet made any such declaration. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

Startron is a big hit, I can't find any on the shelves up here. Time to start ordering on line I guess. Remember, it's all about the enzymes! Bill 33 FBC Ipswich, Ma. [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... a_Rose.jpg[/img]

Bill, West Marine is loaded with it. Rick Ticket 85 SF Falmouth, MA

I ordered from boatfix, 17 bucks a 16 0z. bottle. Bill 33 FBC Ipswich, Ma. [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... a_Rose.jpg[/img]

http://www.newsvine.com/ethanol good info also. Bill 33 FBC Ipswich, Ma. [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... a_Rose.jpg[/img]

From the Cape Cod Times; But some boat owners, such as Rick Schaffer, whose boats have fiberglass tanks, are hoping their tanks last one more season. Schaffer, who docks his Bertram 33 Sport Fish at Green Pond Marina, said he is frustrated with the lack of reliable information available from the boat builder. ''That is the one fear factor we all have, that our tanks will be compromised and we will be blown up and die while we are on our way,'' Schaffer said. I didn't know Rick was quoted in the paper! Bill 33 FBC Ipswich, Ma. [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... a_Rose.jpg[/img]

That was me ! She lead me into that statement at the end of our conversation asking me what would happen if the tanks got compromised. As usual, she went for the drama and missed the point completely ! Rick Ticket 85 SF Falmouth, MA

Well, it is a legitimate fear. Ultimately that is the worst possible thing that "could" happen. Bill 33 FBC Ipswich, Ma. [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... a_Rose.jpg[/img]

I agree , it is a legitimate fear. However , I noticed on the 31 site that a guy was working on a bertram that had never had ethanol in the tank and found all the same brown gas and pieces of stuff floating around in the tank. He assumed it was old varnished gas from years of build-up that was getting dissolved normally. It makes me kinda think that the ethanol is dissolving stuff that is already dissolving in some of these older tanks that may already have issues and is making it worse but I'm still hopefull that if our tanks are healthy, we may be OK if we don't let the gas set in the tank over the winter and we don't start out with a bunch of varnish and crud in the first place. I still hope that they will come to their senses and get rid of this crap for boats but if we have to live with it, I think we can make it work, armed with the knowlege we have gained here and act accordingly. Again, assuming that our tanks are sound to start with, which seems to be the case so far.

Knock on wood! Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]