Boat US safety Alert

Post by **dougl33** » Thu May 18, 2006 11:36 am

Bill, I'm not overlyu concerned with what Chuck Fort has to say. I'm willing to stick by what Geney has said, which sort of backs up what I've been saying in that it doesn't seem to affect all tanks. Rick, Did Geney give any insight into dtermining when a tank was produced? Good job in tracking down the info. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

Post by **dougl33** » Thu May 18, 2006 12:33 pm

Well, I just spent about 45 minutes on the phone with Lee Dana. He was extrodinarily helpful and seemed genuinely interested to speak with me. While he has had many calls regarding the ethanol issue, he said I was the first 33 owner to contact him. I told him I was calling on behalf of all of the gas owners on this forum (I hope you boys don't mind!). Contrary to what Geney has stated, Lee says that he has seen documents from Bertram showing that all Bertram fuel tanks used the same resins. That's all boats, all years up until the early 2000's when he claims Bertram changed to the vinyl-ester resin. The only major difference that he can see is that the early fuel tanks from the 60's (think 20's, 25's, and 31's) were not gel-coated on the inside and that these tanks will definately fail. He didn't claim that the later gel-coated tanks would be safe, but that in his estimation they would last longer. He also said that he was working with a couple of different tank manufacturers to come up with replacement tanks that would also be made out of fiberglass. The work is progressing slowly however as there are still questions over which resin will actually be safe for all future ethanol blends (i.e. anything over E10). Things are also moving slowly because while Bertram has given him access to their archives, they are apparently in quite a state of disarray. He is having a hard time finding drawings of all of the tanks. He did say, however, that he had drawings of the 33 tanks (though he did not mention which years he had). His partner, Jerry Solderholm, has been ill and unable to help Lee. I asked Lee if he would mind if I solicited some volunteers from our site to help him sort through some of Bertram's archives in Miami and he said that that would be helpful. Any of you south Florida boys interested in having an archiving day at the Bertram offices in Miami? If I could get a cheap enough flight I might be interested in joining. He also said that he would be interested in getting samples of any failed fuel tanks so they can try and reverse engineer the process. He seems to think that a new fiberglass tank can be produced for less than $5-$7 per gallon, providing that we re-use the metal plates and tubes from the original tanks. Anyone interested in being a guinea pig should get in touch with him. If I can think of anything else he said, I will add it later. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Thu May 18, 2006 2:23 pm

Good job Doug! Sean Burlingham "Island Time" 1987 Bertram 33 SF Melbourne, FL SBurlingham@cfl.rr.com

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Thu May 18, 2006 3:28 pm

Doug, Ditto on the good job, feels like we're making good progress. Unfortunately Geney did not have the Hull #'s to track. He said to look on the MFG Data that is on the label on top of the tank. If label is gone, that particular data may have to be mined out of the Bertram paperwork to cross reference tank with the hull numbers. Either way, at the end of the day, you need to find when your tank was made. It's wierd that we keep bouncing back and forth from "All tanks" to "pre'86 tanks". Some day it'll probably come together, but for now we'll just keep asking questions. A good day today gents ! Rick Ticket 85 SF Falmouth, MA

franklyprice · Post by **franklyprice** » Thu May 18, 2006 3:55 pm

Doug, That's about as close to the horses mouth as you're going to get I would guess. I would be very interested in helping Lee go through the archives. You know it's funny, I clicked on the link to the ethanol producers that Bill had included in a post and where they had a link to send questions or comments, I sent a breif statement about the reported problems that older boats were having with fiberglass tanks and asked if they had researched the compatability with such tanks, or if they have any advice. I haven't received any reply yet. I guess they are mostly interested in hearing good things about it...

Post by **dougl33** » Thu May 18, 2006 5:38 pm

Frank, I think it would be pretty cool to help him sort through Bertram's archives. We'll have to keep an eye out on cheap flights. FYI: Lee is in Vero Beach. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

lobsta1 · Post by **lobsta1** » Thu May 18, 2006 5:47 pm

Frank, I also emailed the contact name at the link that Bill provided. Just like when I emailed to the ethanol.org site. No answer. Doug & Frank & other Berts of your vintage will probably be OK. I think I'm screwed. When Kelley does her little piece on the news tomorrow nite it should be interesting to hear the rebuttal commets from the eth people. Al 1978 33 FBC NITES OFF

Post by **dougl33** » Thu May 18, 2006 5:51 pm

Al, I don't know why you think Frank and I are out of the woods. According to Lee Dana, we're all in the same boat (pun intended). Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

captgene · Post by **captgene** » Fri May 19, 2006 2:36 am

Good job Doug. I haven't even looked at my fuel tank yet. Too busy with tuneups, looking for my canvas guy, etc. He probably bought $1000 worth of Bud with my money and hasn't finished it yet. One thing caught my eye here. I was not aware they gel coated the inside of any of these tanks. Wonder how they would have done that? I always assumed they just used a extra hard epoxy resin and hand laid cloth over it. If anybody wants to go down to Bertram, let me know. I'm only up the road about 40 miles. Gene Dugan

franklyprice · Post by **franklyprice** » Fri May 19, 2006 2:40 am

Yeah, I think we all are in the same predicament . I still think that the first thing we'll have to deal with will be possible gunk in the tanks disolving. Then it remains to be seen how long it takes for the fiberglass to actually start to break down. I hate to do it but I think the best thing we can do to prolong the old tanks will be to store them empty for the winter. All this considered, I still have a feeling that the fuel we've been using with MTBE has been just as harmful.

Capt. Ed · Post by **Capt. Ed** » Fri May 19, 2006 2:51 am

Doug, GREAT JOB (even for a northerner)! I am up for a trip to Miami, as we spend a lot time in SoBe anyway. 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR BERTRAM PRIDE '06 yet? DO IT NOW... SPACE IS LIMITED!

Post by **dougl33** » Fri May 19, 2006 3:30 am

I just got into work and I had a voice mail from Don Flippen (sp?) at Bertram in response to my email. He claims to have very little insight into the ethanol situation, but left his number and said he'd be happy to talk with me. I'll give him a call a little later and let you guys know how I make out. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

Post by **Admin** » Fri May 19, 2006 4:44 am

Doug, or should I say Detective? Great job!

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Fri May 19, 2006 4:44 am

Well call the flippen guy Sean Burlingham "Island Time" 1987 Bertram 33 SF Melbourne, FL SBurlingham@cfl.rr.com

Post by **dougl33** » Fri May 19, 2006 5:46 am

I just got off the phone with Don. He's the Director of Customer Support for Bertram. As with Lee Dana, Don was very friendly and seemed concerned on our behalf. In a nut shell, he's saying that there's just not enough info for Bertram to take a posture one way or the other. Despite what Lee told me (which I passed on to Don), he's sticking with the somewhere around 1985 line. He said that he thought the switch occurred due to a mandate from either the federal government or the coasties. His suggestion was that if you had a boat built prior to 1985/1986 to change the tank. Unfortunately, this leaves us in the same old place. Don also said that if he got any more info he would pass it on to me. Finally, Don said that he attended the Atlantic City get together last summer and had about a half dozen too many martinis down on the docks. Apparently CB (aka Charlie Haws) throws quite the shin-dig![:p] Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]