Bertram33 User Forum

Sean, my 1978 is gas & only has a 265 gal tank. Just realized you were referring to the SF model. My OOPS Al 1978 33 FBC NITES OFF

Hello Sean, My 1982 33SF has 1" 3.8 shafts mated to 275HP 3208's turing the 21 X 22 3 bladed props with a cup. My shafts have never snapped. I just bent the tip of one last weekend (port). I was about 20 miles offshore cruising into port at 21kts . and I guess I ran into some bad luck. I did'nt even feel the underwater impact. I could not find anything in the water after the event. Outriggers , chairs and the table just started to shake real bad. I thought I had run into a plastic bag or some rope had wrapped around the shaft. I have the MG 502's with the same ratio. A friend has the 375s Cat 3208 with 1" 1/2 shafts on a Tiara 36. He has never had any issues with the shaft size. I heard from a local mechanic that Aquamet also has a draw back. He mentioned that Aguamet does not hold up so well in high electrolisis enviorments. They seem to get brittle (pourus). Shafts snap when: they are miss aligned you hit underwater structures at high speeds. your consistently rough shifting and on the throtle. Regards, Mike Kohlhofer

Ok. Now I'm really confused. How come there are so many diff Cat HP ratings in these boats? 260, 270, 275? What gives? Do you guys all have the same engines? Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA

Sometimes it seems that someone at CAT or Bertram had played a "spin the wheel" game for HP ratings. Guess the HP rating on this boat and win a prize! Anyway, it appears from my research that the Turbo 3208T (no A or aftercooler) engines are all basically the same but there are all kinds of HP ratings between 260 and 320 (inclusive), due mainly to the full load fuel setting in the injection pump and whichever governor springs they put in, which really has no effect on performance at all except if/when the engine is FULLY loaded, like when climbing a huge swell or if overpropped. Rest of the time when under moderate/cruising loads, they will all behave the same. Basically, the diesel HP rating means dick unless you are talking about pushing the engine to its limits, which you generally avoid anyway. Diesels are different animals than gas motors. They will only produce the amount of power you demand from them, and the "throttle" as actually just an RPM setting that has little to do with how much fuel the engine is using. Put the throttle in any particular position and your telling the engine: "run this fast," but if you give it nothing to do it won't generate much power or use much fuel. Run a diesel at WOT out of gear at the dock and it'll use very little fuel (or generate very little power) because it's not pushing anything. Gas engine would sit there drinking tons of fuel with nothing to do and eventually overheat. Being an ex-moterhead with only gas engine experience, it took me a while to grasp this concept but I finally got it. Easiest way to get a diesel to generate more power is to put a bigger prop on it, but better be sure your shafts and trannies can handle the load too. Also better be sure you can reach the WOT rating with your boat, loaded the way you will use it and in the type of weather you will use it. As for Bertram, I think they knew their typical tranny (Twin Disc MG-502) was only rated for 260 or 270 HP, so they ordered the motors "de-tuned" as such, but again that HP number only relates to the max fuel usage setting. They also knew they were undershafting them with 1.375" so they under-propped them to match, 20x22 #3 cup, which has everything to do with how much power the engine will generate. With their setup the engines can't ever get loaded too heavily and thus should last a really long time (6-8,000 hours is common), and it is a safe setup even in heavy seas. All of which kind of describes our boats in general, so it seems to fit with the Bertram philosophy. Sean Burlingham "Island Time" 1987 Bertram 33 SF Melbourne, FL

I just read this post on boatdiesel referring to 320hp cats in a B35. "I had a 35b with the same engines you have, i repowered with 320 cats in 1986, i did not have to bubble the hull because Cat had just come out with the downangle trans. i personally think 370hp is more than sufficient for that hull. I moved back down to a 31b with 315hp yanmars. good luck" Could the downangle transmissions be a solution for FBC owners who don't have the room for the normal transmission configuration and want to go with the 320's rather than the 260/270/275? Jose, What kind of trannies do you have in your boat? Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA

the problem with the down angle at least on my install is that the engine sits higher or further back.it does shorten the length overall though Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

Sean, I have a hard time believing that bertram would order engines to match props shafts and gears that just seems backwards to me Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

quote:Originally posted by photo finish Sean, I have a hard time believing that bertram would order engines to match props shafts and gears that just seems backwards to me Maybe so, but that appears to be the case. 3208T was a 320 HP rated motor. Someone asked CAT to lower the max fuel settings. I don't think a lot of transmissions mated to the 3208 (which is big) fit into the 33 hull. They probably were saving a lot of money with the MG-502's, and apparently made an admitted mistake with the 1.375" shafts. I was told that at some point Bertram recalled all the 33's with CAT 3208T's and 1.375" shafts to get 1.5" shafts installed, because the smaller ones were snapping. Wish the original owner of my boat had paid attention to that, but he was in Maryland (and I assume the boat was too). It has since received the A22 shafts, somewhat stronger, so hopefully I'll be okay. But I won't be increasing my props very much, or my fuel settings at all, without having at least 1.5" A22 shafts. But again, those HP numbers don't mean much. I don't think Bertram was above any wrongdoing or funny business tactics. They were in big financial trouble when my boat was built. Sean Burlingham "Island Time" 1987 Bertram 33 SF Melbourne, FL

Were your original shafts not aquamet 22? mine were according to the original papers.i upgraded them to temet25 when i repowered. If you are really interrested maybe you should call bertram and ask them...i am sure they would explain their reasoning to you.i am sure there must be some tech people still with them.i know when i bought my boat i called them and gave them my hull id and they have records of everything about that boat.if not maybe cat or danny at high tide.i am finding that there many ways to set up a boat ...most of them end up with a very similar result.one might get better fuel economy,one might get more speed one might have better handling and of course one might either svae the consumer or the boat builder more money..and quite possible saving a boat builder in trouble might be the reason... Sean,have you been out fishing lately?i am so pumped about hitting the stream next weekend on my way from largo to bimini. Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

Unfortunately no fishing yet this season. All my buddies are out in the stream catching Mahi and Wahoo like crazy now, and I've still got grease under my fingernails. Real shame, the Gulf Stream starts only 15 miles out of my inlet (Sebastian) and I haven't been out there since last fall. I'm still trying to get everything the way I want, boat is a floating toolbox. Last week I finally tackled the engine work I wanted to do, the generator, the chartplotter, the sat weather system, and the bottom/fishfinder. Still have radar and autopilot to go. I might make it out fishing next weekend or the one after though. Get some blue & white or blue & chartruese lures for your ballyhoo, that is what I'm hearing they're biting on this year. Also hear about people doing really well with naked ballyhoo too. 'Tis the season. Maybe my statement that Bertram was trying to save money wasn't the right thing. That boat setup was being used long before they got into trouble. I just don't think that, at the time, boatbuilders really were trying to max out the speed like everybody wants now. It was just their design. It is a shame though that they setup a hull that likes to plane at 23 knots in fair weather with a drivetrain that wants to cruise at 20-21k. All their records state is that my original shafts were stainless. Last owner was told they were lower grade shafts by the shop he had them replaced at. That doesn't mean they weer the original Bertram shafts though. Sean Burlingham "Island Time" 1987 Bertram 33 SF Melbourne, FL

Hi Doug; Sorry didn´t answer before but just got back from the Keys and BLUE CHIP doesn´t have internet capabilities yet. Our gears are MG 502 with a 1.54:1 ratio. The shaft is a 1.375. The local CAT dealer insists these engines are rated 320hp based on the serials. Regards Jose Jaen "Blue Chip" 1993 33FBC Miami FL

Jose, did you fish in the keys???? Sean those are the colors i like as well..i got some bigger dark purple lures to drag when i am deep in the stream to try to get a wahoo Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

Tim; I´ll tell you a secret, I get terribly seasick if it rocks while at anchor or drifting so I don´t fish a lot. However others at the marina did real well. Jose Jaen "Blue Chip" 1993 33FBC Miami FL

I did a search, and found this thread- this was the post that let me know about Bertram recalling the 1.375" shafts quote:Originally posted by Rick I have a 1985 33SF w/ 1 3/8" shafts and one of them snapped ! Snapped just aft of the Starboard strut while cruising at 3,000 w/ my gas Merc 454's. When I called Bertram to get a shaft length measurement, he said "let's see....an '85 33SF.....you have 1.5" shafts....". I called time out and explained to him that they were indeed 1 3/8" and upon further review he came back and told me that there had been an upgrade years ago to re-fit all 33's w/ 1.5" shafts because they were snapping. I didn't even ask how much parts were, knowing I was easily looking at $7,500 to start. I've had the boat since 1997 and that was the first to go. So I'm not sure what to expect for frequency, but that job will have to wait until it's time to repower...again. Could be that the shaft had minor vibrations which exacerbated the situation, who knows. I was loaded up with people and a full tank of gas which I'm sure didn't help but I was no where near the full throttle of 4,400 either. They're heavy boats. Most boats with much less of our weight use a 1 3/8" shaft, it all made sense when put it all together. The 1.5" shafts are on my list but will probably stay there for a while. Fair winds, following sea's, Rick Sean Burlingham "Island Time" 1987 Bertram 33 SF Melbourne, FL SBurlingham@cfl.rr.com [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... d_Time.jpg[/img]

I have the 320 cats with ZF 220A 1.5 :1 GEARS. Plenty of room. Mike