Bertram33 User Forum

This entire topic is just killing me![:(!] It may have not been the main reason we bought our boats, but I'll bet the fact that the Berts (and Hatts and Vikes for that matter!) came with fiberglass tanks was a selling point for all of us to some degree. Now the gov't is taking one of the strongest points of all of these boats and turning it into a huge cluster f*** of a question. Obviously we'll have to adopt a wait and see policy and maybe we'll be all right. So far, it seems that I've only heard of issues with all very old models of Berts, i.e. 20's, 25's, and 31's. All of these were designed in the 60's. The one thing that's generally missing in all of these stories are the years of the boats that have been affected. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

the years that are being affected are anything pre 1985/1986. one of these years seems to be the magic one, where at least hatteras (or subcontractor) changed their resin formula to something more resistant. the betrams/hatteras' i have either seen or heard of with problems are late 60's to mid 70's. i went to the boatyard and saw the tanks boatus took samples from. real ugly. there were 3 bert's in the yard, 2 blew up. 1 no problems, yet. there are 2 hat's in my yard, myself and a 1967 34'. he lasted 3 hours, i lasted 1 1/2 at the beginning af last year. yet i have a friend with the same boat as me, only a 1974, who went all season with no problems. jim ps: another friend of mine has a yammy high pressure injection outboard. it seems there are something like 5 filters inline on this. the very last one (plastic mesh) was being disolved by the ethanol. took the mechaninc all summer to figure it out. he says yam has changed the filter to a metal screen now.

Jim, That's my point. We don't specifically which years. Yes, we're hearing "sometime" around the mid-80's should be OK. But the fact is, the only Berts that I know have had problems have been 20's (not built since the early 70's at the latest), 25's (ditto), and 31's (out of production after 83 except for 25 silver anniversary editions in 86). Of the 31's that have had problems, no one has mentioned the year of their boats. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

Jim, Thanks for the input. Has NY had ethanol in the fuel for more than one season? If so, do you know how long? What you're saying is that the fuel stored in the boats tanks for the winter dissolved enough goo to plug up or mess up the engines in an hour and a half? What exactly happened? What did you do to resolve the problem?(assuming you didn't sit out the season) If nothing else, it would be wise to store a boat with an empty tank for the winter I would guess. I remember when they started putting MTBE in gas around here , about ten years ago. There were a lot of problems with older cars leaking fuel and getting bad mileage but since then, things worked themselves out. Do you know if they ever put MTBE in gas in NY before the ethanol?

quote:Originally posted by dougl33 The one thing that's generally missing in all of these stories are the years of the boats that have been affected. That is a really good point, makes me wonder if it's just the oldies that are vulnerable. After all, they did the same thing with ethanol in the mid-70's, you'd think some chemist-type would anticipate the problem AFTER that episode. Sean Burlingham "Island Time" 1987 Bertram 33 SF Melbourne, FL SBurlingham@cfl.rr.com

Frank, NY & CT used MTBE until spring of 2004. If you look in the NE fishing forum the 1st reports of troubles started about June of 2004. A lot of the outboards were screwed up from all the gunk being dislodged.(particularly Yamaha). At 1st nobody knew what was going on. By the end of 2005 season the bulk of the reports started to die down. Unfortunately not for the Berts & Hatts. Like you pointed out though, there is still no definitive answer on WHAT years or models are involved. From the news articles I've read, it looks like there will be virtually NO mtbe & all ethanol gas being produced after May 5, 2005. I think that 0505 2006 is when the MTBE lawsuit liability protection for the refiners runs out. So if at all possible top off just before that date & then wait until you are on fumes before you put in the eth laced gas. Al 1978 33 FBC NITES OFF

Al, Ethanol is here now. The local gas station is getting their first load today.Just a matter of time 'till the marina gets it. I would have to guess that we'll all be running on it this summer. Since I'm in a better position than you , I , as stated previously am not as nervous and plan to wait for results. What do you plan to do? That one tank can't last all summer....

How much you want to bet your local fuel dock has no idea what they're getting and how to properly make the switch from MBTE to Ethanol, someone should document it and use that as evidence when your engines stop running. Bill 33 FBC Ipswich, Ma. [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... a_Rose.jpg[/img]

sorry i can't help with the specific year or models with the problem. when i was at the yard i was only concerned with THE problem not the WHO aspect. most of the people i have spoken with who have a problem (all hatteras owners) started in the (2005) spring when using the winter stored fuel. i do know a guy who brought his boat down from british columbia in the spring only to start having problems once he loaded up with NY fuel. as far as what happened, i started bending pushrods 1 1/2 hours into my breakin of freshly rebuilt 427 fords. it when downhill from there. my solution, in the middle of august, was to pump the tanks and only run on techtron laced fuel. i also ran the engines on straight carb spray to (3 or 4 cans) to clean out the top end. this got me into september running well and i called it season. this was after valve jobs and multiple runins with pushrods and finally rebuilding the carbs (throttle plates were pretty much glued). when i winterized i used a remote tank with techtron. we hatters' are in the same boat (pardon the pun) with you guys for a permanent solution. new tanks? what kind? as other people have posted here the bertram31 site has had some lively discussions on tanks.

Unique, It only took 1 1/2 hrs of running time to screw the pooch. Do you know how long the eth fuel was in your tank? Since it appears that the problem was unrecognized at that time, do you think you had a strong mix of eth & mtbe fuel in your tank? The ???'s just keep on. Al 1978 33 FBC NITES OFF

Just a thought with the ethanol discussion. Don't a lot of the gas stations and marinas have fiberglass storage tanks?

the ethanol/mtbe mix sat all winter, about 5/8 of a tanks worth. unlike the station owners who are supposed to adhere to certain regulations (emptying, cleaning, certifying) regarding their first delivery of ehtanol fuel most people were never informed of the incompatability. yes, most underground tanks around here are fiberglass. the 1960's - early seventy single wall tanks were replaced with double walled. owens corning built most of the tanks and stated in their liturature the old tanks would not be warrantied against failure with new fuels. there are all sorts of white papers on the subject on the web. ps: update a fellow commisorator in my yard (67 34' hatt conv) cut open his deck and pulled his inspection port off. i went over and stuck my hand in the tank and rubbed the underside of the tank top. i could feel stuff flaking, and my hand came back with resin chips on it. looked in the tank and the wall i could see looked just like the 2 bertram tanks i had seen. (the ones boatus took samples from) a demarcation line about halfway up the tank with the upper half looking like matting. that was it. walked over to my boat and took off the top of the port aft bunk in preparation for removal of the tank. i was all set to go with the plastic but my tanks aren't rectangles. the aft portion tapers to about 1'. this is to accomodate the steering assembly and the curvature of the stern. new tanks ARE in my future.

I am sure that the ethanol is hurrying along the failure of these old tanks. What is a surprise to me is that they lasted as long as they did with just gas in them. Can you imagine how many times the tanks would have been replaced on a boat that is 39 years old, had the tanks been made of aluminum? I have to wonder what one of these would look like without the ethanol? Considering that gelcoat blisters with water against it on most boats in far less time than they've been full of gas. Al, Could you check the integrity of your tank before filling up with the ethanol/gas? You can be the canary in a coal mine for the rst of us, since you have the oldest boat ..When you blow up, it's time for the rest of us to worry. Mike , could you use a rectangular plastic tank and just eliminate some of the capacity?

Last year at this time gas at the roadside pump averaged $2.22 a gallon. At present time, average nationwide is $2.76. Canada is $1.06. Bill 33 FBC Ipswich, Ma. [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... a_Rose.jpg[/img]

http://manasota88.tripod.com/ethanol.html Our government is retarded. Bill 33 FBC Ipswich, Ma. [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... a_Rose.jpg[/img]