DO NOT DO ALUMINUM TANKS - READ LEE DANA'S COMMENT

Capt. Ed · Post by **Capt. Ed** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:56 am

I just got off the phone with Lee Dana, (who I hope is going to join our site), about the fiberglass tank issue. Lee was with Bertram for 29 years, and retired in 1990, and the folks at Bertram call him "Mr. Bertram". He has a report he is sending that I will post later. But the the main issue that tanks into the 90's are at risk. Also Ethanol contains about 5% water, and is conductive. He said that we are much better with fiberglass tanks and that by doing so we will also keep the value of our boats up. I have to run, but will post his report later. BTW, his favorite Bertram? 33 Sportfish and the nickname for the 33 FBC's... the "Tall Ships" 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... xandra.jpg[/img] HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR BERTRAM PRIDE '06 yet? DO IT NOW... SPACE IS LIMITED!

sbeer · Post by **sbeer** » Fri Sep 08, 2006 11:55 pm

I had dinner with him and his wife at the atlantic city get together. Interesting guy. Mike

TonyNJ · Post by **TonyNJ** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:36 am

Capt. I saw on another post that you had info on re-glassing our existing tanks. Can you provide any contact info and / or approx. cost? Thanks. Tony

Capt. Ed · Post by **Capt. Ed** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:19 am

Hi Tony, Call Kevin Horn at 727-942-4152 for info. Also, Lee Dana is having Glass Tech make some new ones. 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... xandra.jpg[/img] HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR BERTRAM PRIDE '06 yet? DO IT NOW... SPACE IS LIMITED!

TonyNJ · Post by **TonyNJ** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 10:14 am

Thanks Capt. I wonder how long the wait will be for the Glass Tech tanks. I saw on their site that the tanks for the 28's were being made. No mention on the 33 tanks as of yet. Now I just have to find someone in NJ thats willing to reglass our tanks. Tony

Capt. Ed · Post by **Capt. Ed** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 3:50 pm

Tony, Call Kevin and speak with him about it, so you know what questions to ask. 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... xandra.jpg[/img] HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR BERTRAM PRIDE '06 yet? DO IT NOW... SPACE IS LIMITED!

Capt. Ed · Post by **Capt. Ed** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:52 am

The letter was a response to a article in August Professional Boatbuilder: Your August articles regarding Ethanol continue to expand the growing number of troubling issues regarding boats that are using Gasohol (E10). For many Bertram boat owners it has become a case of double heartburn. I continue to receive calls from owners with questions regarding their fiberglass tank and what to expect if they start using E10. Unfortunately, the recreational boating press with misinformation and complex detail has not helped reduce the anxiety. One well intentioned writer extracted some data from the Fiberglass Institute stating that the industry changed their resin in the 70’s to accommodate Ethanol. What they failed to explain, was that the Institute represents only the commercial fuel storage tanks and piping. Even Bertram failed to get it right when they were telling owners that they had changed resin in 1985 and boats built after that date would not have a problem. Wrong! We did change the resin supplier for the fuel tanks in the 80’s to satisfy UL Marine. This required only a certified flame retardant resin which, at that time, was Hetron 26252. Specifications for the UL certifications were approved in 1982 but records show we were still using bulk ortho. resin and adding the Antimony Trioxide as late as 1985. Records also show that by 1986-87 we had switched to the Hetron resin. I have since gone on record that all Bertram fiberglass fuel tanks from 1961 to 1990+ that will use Gasohol are venerable to some level of degeration, How long it will take for failure to occur remains a mystery. The belief, that if a fiberglass fuel tank is constructed with Vinyl Ester or Epoxy resin the problem would not exist is simply not supported by any industry data that I am aware of. The truth is, not all Vinyl Ester resins are suitable for Gasohol. In fact the resin that is suitable for pure Ethanol is not suitable for Gasohol. There is also a real concern for metal tanks with the possibility of corrosion and or galvanic reaction due to the water content and character of Ethanol. It is no secret that Ethanol is a solvent and is ionic conductive, even though it is considered a poor conductor. Finally, I have committed to a program of tank replacement and guidance for all gasoline powered Bertram’s. We are, at this point, working to organize the tank information which includes many different tank configurations within a single model, some of which were in production over a 40 year period. Interplastic Corporation has been extremely helpful in selecting the proper resin for the replacement tanks. Therefore, in order to assure the tank longevity the resin must meet UL 1316 "All Fuels". LEE DANA AND ASSOCIATES Marine Consultants 210 Ocean Beach Trail Vero Beach, Florida 32963 Phone: 772-234-5211 Fax: 772-234-2590 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... xandra.jpg[/img] HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR BERTRAM PRIDE '06 yet? DO IT NOW... SPACE IS LIMITED!

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:28 am

Ed you should post that on the 31 site too, there is a lot of activity there on this issue. One guy even got a Wall Street Journal article written about it, was published 9/2/06. They did only a fair job of explaining the issue, but it is something. Check it out here: http://bertram31.com/newbb/viewtopic.ph ... 341967f423 Sean Burlingham "Island Time" 1987 Bertram 33 SF Melbourne, FL SBurlingham@cfl.rr.com [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... d_Time.jpg[/img]

Capt. Ed · Post by **Capt. Ed** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:49 am

Thank Sean, I just posted it. 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... xandra.jpg[/img] HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR BERTRAM PRIDE '06 yet? DO IT NOW... SPACE IS LIMITED!

Post by **dougl33** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:23 am

Ed, Thanks for posting Lee's letter. He's really not telling us anything we already didn't know as this was pretty much what he told me back in April/May. Here's what still has me scratching my head: 1. Why is it that some boats have had trouble right away while others have had problems either a year or 2 later or not at all? 2. Why is it that we've only seen issues with 20's, 25's, 31's, and one or 2 28's? Bertram made plenty of gas powered 30's (in the early 80's and mid 90's), 33's, and 35's with a few each of 36's, 37's, 38's, and 42's. It doesn't add up. Unfortunately, until some definative testing is done, Lee's comments will hurt more than help as some writer at either XYZ Boating Magazine or worse an adjuster from ABC Insurance Company will take this as gospel and continue to perpetuate the issue without really having any concrete evidence or a possible explanation. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

BECCA ROSE · Post by **BECCA ROSE** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:49 am

"Time" will be the only factor in determining the effects of ethanol on my fuel tank. No one knows what my tank is made of, or if problems will occur and how long it will take. So, I just use my boat and add startron. Keep a watchful eye and nose on my fuel tank, and not lose one ounce of sleep about it. I do worry a little about all the speculation, and the negative effect it has on the value of the boat and the ability to get insurance. Bill 33 FBC Ipswich, Ma. [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... a_Rose.jpg[/img]

Capt. Ed · Post by **Capt. Ed** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:36 pm

Just use it as a reason to repower with diesels! 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... xandra.jpg[/img] HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR BERTRAM PRIDE '06 yet? DO IT NOW... SPACE IS LIMITED!

BECCA ROSE · Post by **BECCA ROSE** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:29 pm

100 hours a year at best for me, makes it hard to plunk down 90,000 for diesels. Would I like them, hell ya, but I got other places I need to burn that money in the near future. Just have to keep the old girl runnin'! Bill 33 FBC Ipswich, Ma. [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... a_Rose.jpg[/img]

franklyprice · Post by **franklyprice** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:12 pm

Thanks Ed, Just for my own satisfaction I'm going to call ashland chemical tomorrow and see about this hetron resin. They still make a bunch of resins using the hetron name but none I can find with the number mentioned by lee Dana. Hopefully they(ashland) can give me some specs on the resin Lee mentions. If Bertram did use this resin for the tanks after , say '85, ashland can hopefully tell me what they think about it's suitability for use with ethanol. Might be a dead-end but it's somewhere to start.. I know Lee Dana is THE MAN with the construction of these boats but I'd like to hear just what their resin supplier has to say.

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:18 pm

Well said Bill!!