Gene's repower (I think)

jav · Post by **jav** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:32 am

Capt. Ed - Doug is correct- I removed 225/240 HP Chrylsers and went with used 200 hp Volvo's. I had flow scans with the gas engines and my most efficient cruise was @ 3000 RPM where I was running 16-17 knots and burning 22-24 GPH total. The diesels most efficient cruise is @ 2800 RPM running at the same 16-17 knots but burning less than 10 GPH total. BUT- the big difference is that unlike with my old 4 bbl gas engines, I can cruise all day long as high as 3600 RPM (not that I do) running 22-23 knots and still only burn around 16 GPH total. So when you consider my gassers were burning over 22 GPH to make 17 knots and the lower horsepower Volvos are only burning 16 GPH to make 23 knots, the difference is pretty substantial. BTW- I alway have my feelers out for a deal on a Bert. I haven't seen a larger market adjustment on Bertrams becuase of the tank issues - yet. I think everything is depressed and just not moving. Having said that, IF a documented problem does arise in the future out of prolonged ethanol use with fiberglass tanks, I can see where that might effect things in a negative way. Put another way- At this point for me as a potential buyer, I am perfectly comfortable with a fiberglass tank that has been converted to diesel prior to prolonged exposure to ethanol. I would not feel the same way IF the conversion was done later. I understand that theres allot still up in the air but my understanding is that IF and WHEN a chemical interaction takes place between the resin and fuel mix, the intergity of the tanks inner surface becomes less stable and more precipitous. Thus to mind, an integral tank that has historically never seen ethanol is an asset where a tank that has been subjected to it COULD be a liabilty IF documented problems do arise in the future.

captgene · Post by **captgene** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:37 am

Great feedback you guys. I have thought out most of this. The reman Cummins were a option. But going D, I need to replace a almost new Gen set. Not having one isn't an option. My biggest concern is if I have to sell this boat within the next few years, I'd lose my shirt. I called one of my Broker friends that works for Richard Bertram, and he said if I repower with brand spanking new engines. Sell the boat tomorrow with 0 hrs. I'd recover about .50 on the dollar. If I wait and sell the boat maybe next yr. with any hrs. on the engines, I can probably recover .25 on the dollar. From a financial stand point. Rebuilds or remans, forget it. A buyer doesn't want to hear it. I know there are exceptions, but it just narrows the the target customer base to a chosen few. Now if I had no doubt that I was not ever planning on selling this boat, there is absolutly no question I would spend 80-90K on new diesels and a new Gen. set. But with a daily threat of getting downsized and 2 kids , one starting FSU next year, I have to keep the option to dump this expense quickly. Hopefully it never comes to that. As a sidebar to all this. I'm going to start tearing this engine down tonite. I think I can pull the head and replace the headgasket in a couple days just to get me a month or two out of it. I have a sitdown with my mechanic Thurs. No shopping, this is the only guy I trust other than myself to even hold a wrench on my boat. I wrote down all the scenerios written here and whatever else I thought of. It's a shame, but it is economics, cuz if I was just doing this from impulse, I'd have the thing in for diesels, new Furuno electronics, redone interior. The finance co. said they would loan 135K on this boat at 7.34% Gene Dugan

jav · Post by **jav** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:38 am

Capt. Gene, your approach is likely exactly what I'd do in your shoes... so true about the current climate of doubting future prosperity while knowing for certain that the obligations won't go away. I do want to point out what my broker said about the subject that I found interesting. I agree with everything you said relative to recapturing pennies on the dollar for your investment. The flip side is that my broker says, what little activity there is in this market sector, is in diesel vessels. He agreed nothings moving well but he can't even get folks to look at the gas boats. So beyond recapturing investment capital, I think theres something to be said for market appeal.. at least thats how I try to justify what I did.

GMarty · Post by **GMarty** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:25 am

Its odd too because these 33 FBC's with fresh diesel power are such a great value when compared to other boats in the $135 - $150K range. I can offshore fish one weekend and go away comfortably with another couple the next - all while bragging that I own a Bertram. Scary as it is, mine is a fairly economical cruise at this point and is certainly better on fuel than twin OB's on 33 CC. Hell, the guy parked next to me paid $130 for a 29 Seaswirl that I think I could run over without noticing. He is forever telling me that he wished he could go with a good sport fisher like mine - he would **** his pants if he knew that we both have about the same invested. I just dont think people realize what a nice set up this represents. Plus, as you guys know, nearly everywhere I go people praise the boat big time. Someone needs to get the message out!

franklyprice · Post by **franklyprice** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:42 am

You're right George. I've been saying that for awhile. It seems like a bargain compared to some other boats with equal or even lesser reputations.

BECCA ROSE · Post by **BECCA ROSE** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 4:05 pm

Our boats absolutely give you the best bang for the buck. That's why I don't think you can make a mistake either way with gas, or diesel. I keep hoping the word does get out what an awesome boat we have, and, that they are undervalued at this time. Bill 33 FBC Ipswich, Ma. [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... a_Rose.jpg[/img]

Miss B · Post by **Miss B** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:56 pm

If you go with gas engine Mercruiser types, make sure you have the new design Merc dry joint exhaust manifold and riser set up. This has not been a problem with Crusader, but the narrow boss and small gasket sizing on the old style Mercruiser risers has been a well documented source of water into engines as the gaskets fail. If I were faced with the concerns you expressed regarding the future of boating and personal financial demands, my opinion would be to just drop a new gas block in there and let it go at that. Cheap, easy to service, and you can swap over your wiring harness, alternators, fresh water expansion tanks, and other fittings. But what ever you do if you go Merc style get the dry joint exhaust manifolds.

Post by **dougl33** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:00 am

Tom makes a good point. The cheapest and dirtiest way to do a re-power would be to drop in a pair of long blocks. If I was worried about having too much into the boat and maybe had to think about selling it in a year or 2 I'd probably go with long blocks. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

captgene · Post by **captgene** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:17 am

I'm going with the new 8.1 Crusaders. I was never a Mercruiser fan, but I've had 2 boats now with the 454 Gen IVs. I changed the risers out every third year, flushed the Heatexchangers every year, rebuilt the water pumps every year. Oil& filter every 50 hrs. I got well over 2000 hrs on the 1st set, and I have just that on the ones in the Bertram. But I still believe Crusader has the best Marine conversion in a chevy block. The big deal is with these new hi tech engines, I don't have a clue how to work on them. I'll have to go to Crusader school like I went to Detroit school when I had my workboat. Gene Dugan

Capt. Ed · Post by **Capt. Ed** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:13 pm

John, I agree with your point and as gas prices increase, it will come to a point in which the payback is shorter and makes sense. I like Volvo's, I had a pair in another boat and never had any trouble with them. With the current price of fuel, I would say that the fuel payback would be around 400 to 500 ("at cruising speed") hours with used engines. So depending on how much you run that could be 4 to 8 years. I would like to repower, but I plan to move up to something in the 40' plus as my daughter get's older and wants to compete in billfish tourneys. But who knows, I may come across a deal and be in my "just getter done" moods and repower, eating my words of self logic. Which I am sure Doug will not let me forget if I do! If it is truly only $6k more to do, I would do it Gene, but we know how the "only" this much more takes on a life of its own, and grows like a beer drinking pot belly pig. 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... xandra.jpg[/img] HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR BERTRAM PRIDE '06 yet? DO IT NOW... SPACE IS LIMITED!

Post by **dougl33** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:56 am

quote:Originally posted by Capt. Ed But who knows, I may come across a deal and be in my "just getter done" moods and repower, eating my words of self logic. Which I am sure Doug will not let me forget if I do! Never! We're not on the Supreme Court, so feel free to reserve the right to change your mind![:D] Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

Capt. Ed · Post by **Capt. Ed** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:47 am

Doug, you are starting to worry me, you are being much to PC for my taste. 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... xandra.jpg[/img] HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR BERTRAM PRIDE '06 yet? DO IT NOW... SPACE IS LIMITED!

Post by **dougl33** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:22 am

Ok. You're right. You can't change your mind. Although I an free to change my mind at will. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

Capt. Ed · Post by **Capt. Ed** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:56 am

quote:You can't change your mind. Although I an free to change my mind at will. Doug, NOW you are starting to sound like my wife... and THAT is scary! [:D] 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... xandra.jpg[/img] HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR BERTRAM PRIDE '06 yet? DO IT NOW... SPACE IS LIMITED!

captgene · Post by **captgene** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:29 am

Time to breath some new life into this thread. I'm about to pull the trigger on this. Sold some stock last Fri. and am waiting on the check. The tenitive haulout is 1st week in Mar. If I can get Tim to help me with some questions, it may make my life easier. First project. I had to rent storage to put all the interior, gear, etc, etc. No room at home for all of it. I need to start lining up parts. So Q1 , Tim, how did you wire to the bridge. Was there a adapter from MC to Crusader? Or did they run a whole new harness from ea. engine to the bridge? I'm thinking of doing the latter and using new Crusader gages. The 2007 model also has a cable to link the 2 engines together as part of the new sync and cruise control system. Crusader also has it's own alarm system. But I still would use the old one for raw water flow & the fire system only. I'm still in the do-it-yourself mode. But I am hiring a Crusader Mech. with repower experence to help me. This will be a experence , I'm sure. Used engines in Boat Trader! Hear them run before you buy! If I can get $3K , I'd be a happy camper. Gene Dugan Boca Raton, Fl. "Nauti Marie" 1989 33 FBC