Gene's repower (I think)

captgene · Post by **captgene** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:15 am

My turn, This summer has not been very good to me boat wise. The good news is that almost a year after Wilma, I got everything almost reparied. New canvas is finally on , just in time for this hurricane season. Looks good! But now the boat doesn't run! Looks bad! Port engine has been giving me a headache all summer. After new RW pump and new heatexchanger things looked really good. Sat. I noticed I was getting a bit or steam out the exhaust, so I climbed down to see what it smelled like. Coolant, tasted like coolant. So I dropped down to the engine room. Seemed to be running OK, not hot, but I checked the coolant and there is no pressure in the tank, and it's low. At the end of the day after everything cooled down I started pulling plugs so I could check the compression. Pulled back plug , outboard side and get about a qt. of coolant. Sh--! So at 2000 hrs, I don't think I'm doing a top end on this engine. Time to repower. I cannot justify putting Yannies in this boat, even if I'd love to have them. This has to be a financial decision. Tim can chime in here, but I plan on going to the 8.1 Crusaders. And I know somebody is going to say what about the FG tank? That is TBD until we know more about E10. Maybe 120 Lehmans and turn it into a trawler. So let the games begin. I have a "in" for the Crusaders, but I'm going to have to do this myself, cuz I sure can't afford to take a chance on somebody I don't know to do it right. I figure engines, new shafts, reprop, and dripless shaft seals. Normal BS that comes up. What else??? Gene Dugan

Post by **dougl33** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:53 am

Gene, Sorry to hear about your engine troubles. That really sucks. What about factory re-manufactured Cummins? I hate to say that they're only $6.5k more per side (because $13k is a lot of $$), but I'd be remiss if I didn't point it out (about $13.5K per engine and tranny for the Crusader and about $19K per engine and tranny for the Cummins). I know its a tough decision to make, but when you throw in the cost of possibly replacing your tank, it brings the numbers closer together. Coupled with the fact that the Cummins will probably burn around 20 gph compared to the 30-35 for the Crusaders it gets even closer. Even if gas and diesel were the same price, it would cost you at least $3500 more in one year (considering a 100 hour per year avg) to run the Crusaders (conservatively at 30gph). Since you're in Florida, you may even run your boat more than that. Good luck. I'm sure that whichever way you go will be the right way for you. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

Post by **Admin** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:42 am

True Doug, but how much more does it cost to convert the generator over also?

Post by **dougl33** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:51 am

Well, you're probably talking at least another $6k-$8K just for the gennie alone, but I know I could get away without one for awhile. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

BECCA ROSE · Post by **BECCA ROSE** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:20 pm

For the amount of time I use my boat up in New England, I would have to go with the Crusaders. 100 hours a year at best makes it tough to go with the added cost of diesels. Generator is on borrowed time, it will be ballast when it catastrophically dies, the kids can do without Mac and Cheese while at anchor. Tough to find diesel mechanics up here to do work for you, so you better have a very good understanding of them. As Bill Parcells said, "I do reserve the right to change my mind". Gmarty, what do you think?? Bill 33 FBC Ipswich, Ma. [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... a_Rose.jpg[/img]

Post by **Admin** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:25 pm

Can you run the A/C without the gennie? If not, I don't think no generator (hence, no A/C) is an option for Gene in FL.

BECCA ROSE · Post by **BECCA ROSE** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:40 pm

Good point, AC is a must for him. Solar? Bill 33 FBC Ipswich, Ma. [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... a_Rose.jpg[/img]

Capt. Ed · Post by **Capt. Ed** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:02 pm

Don't forget the cost of new shafts, props, etc. I had ran the numbers every way I could trying to justify a diesel repower, and even with my bias I could no do it. It just didn't add up in the end. I kove my boay, but I could take my 33 FBC, the diesel repower money, and move up to a large boat with diesels and have just as much fun fixing and upgrading the new boat. 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... xandra.jpg[/img] HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR BERTRAM PRIDE '06 yet? DO IT NOW... SPACE IS LIMITED!

Capt. Ed · Post by **Capt. Ed** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:04 pm

Gene, I am really sorry to hear about the bad year you are having. The bright side is that the new engines with the fuel rails will burn less fuel! 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... xandra.jpg[/img] HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR BERTRAM PRIDE '06 yet? DO IT NOW... SPACE IS LIMITED!

franklyprice · Post by **franklyprice** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:35 am

Gene, What if gas doubles in price in the next few years? How would that effect your equation and the use of our gas boats?

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:51 am

Gene, I can identify, was there myself in 2000 and I dropped in a new pair of Merc 454's. Went smooth and was relatively painless. But those remanufactured Cummins are NICE. A guy at my dock just put in a pair of the 370's into a 35' Bert and they are smooth. Hardly any smoke and they fire right up. Definitely worth consideration, you'll have to make the call on those numbers. Rick Ticket 85 SF Falmouth, MA

jav · Post by **jav** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:17 am

Captgene, just as another option- this one isn't for everyone but it's a path I've been down and would do it again in a heart beat. How about used diesels? I did this on my boat and it cost me about the same as new gas engines (would have been less if I didn't replace tanks, trannies and controls). Also, with tier 2 diesel specs looming, I would ecpect to see the price for mechanical engines dropping to some degree ... maybe even some deals on old stock? . I actually prefer mechanical engines from a service and reliabilty standpoint. I am admittedly pro diesel but I understand the economics don't always make sense for most boaters. I tend to agree with Doug that if your at all concerned about your tank (e10 or the potential for e85 in the future), the swap to diesel would be easier to justify for Bert owners than it it would be for most other folks. Lastly, not withstanding the "need for speed", you can normally maintain higher cruise speeds with less total diesel horsepower than with gas. So you can usually replace your current gas power with lower powered diesels and still improve all aspects of running (other than top speed). I know replacing my V8's with straight 6's has been great from a performance and servicing standpoint. Just something to consider.

Capt. Ed · Post by **Capt. Ed** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:19 am

John, What did you replace with? 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... xandra.jpg[/img] HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR BERTRAM PRIDE '06 yet? DO IT NOW... SPACE IS LIMITED!

GMarty · Post by **GMarty** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:38 am

Given the ethanol, certainty of $4/ gallon, saftey issues (mostly not discussed but significant) I cant imagine signing up for gasoline as a solution if you are forced to start over. I agree with Reman or used, but switch if you can. Let me give you a quick look at the difference. I ran to Veatch's Canyon offshore fishing last weekend for an over-nighter and used a shocking 178 gallons - round trip! To put this in perspective, it is about 105 miles each way, trolled for 8 to 10 hours, ran the gen the entire time. I thought the gauge was broken. The performance is equally as amazing. The boat was loaded with fuel, 4 guys, food, booze ice for 2 days, all the fishing equiptment we could carry, 100lb safety raft etc and it never skipped a beat. Popped out of the water like it was me and honey and only lost (maybe) a knot or two into the current. Keep in mind my new cruise about 22 so I am doing all this at about 4 to 5 knots faster than with my gas engines. WOW! I respect that it is very expensive but the difference is almost hard to belive.

Post by **dougl33** » Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:44 am

Ed, I'm pretty sure that John went with Volvo's in his 32 Trojan. I hear you about spending the money on a boat that already has diesels, but the problem is that with all this ethanol bullsh**, we couldn't sell our boats without first replacing the tank (a minimum of $5K and probably closer to $7K). I'm not completely adverse to selling my boat and starting from scratch with a 37 or 38, but lets face it, how many of us are going to go out, buy a 37 or 38 (with 15-25 year old diesels) and say "I'm perfectly happy with how this boat is setup." I think the answer is very few of us. I bought my boat in 2002 and with the exception of the engines its pretty much where I want it but its taken me the better part of 4-5 seasons to get it that way (since I'm not independently wealthy like Brian and Tim!). Hardtop/enclosure, electronics, re-cored deck, bottom stripped, re-finished interior, and numerous other small (yet expensive) updates. Some on this board may remember that a year and half ago I was singing a different tune. I was all for selling the boat rather than converting to diesels. But with the tank issue looming and the relativly low cost of re-man'd/running take-outs, its starting to look less cut and dry to me. Sure you could re-tank and re-power with rebuilt 454's for not a lot of $$, but I'd be miserable doing that as I feel the boat is really under-powered with 454's. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]