Insurance woes

Capt. Ed · Post by **Capt. Ed** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:18 pm

George, Try calling Wiseley Marine Insurance (1-800-783-5085) they only deal in marine and write a lot of commercial vessels also. If they cannot help, they can give you names of companies that will write you. Good luck, 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR BERTRAM PRIDE '06 yet? DO IT NOW... SPACE IS LIMITED!

gskill · Post by **gskill** » Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:57 am

Thanks for the leads if I find a better price I'll let everyone know. George Skillas 33 FBC Destiny - 1983 Deerfield Beach, Florida

sbeer · Post by **sbeer** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:33 am

I guess there is a price to pay to be in the sunshine state. Mike

Capt. Ed · Post by **Capt. Ed** » Mon Jun 19, 2006 7:08 am

Having more days of sunshine and being able to use the boat all year does take a little sting out of it. But it also means that we get to spend money on fuel year sound too. [:(] 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR BERTRAM PRIDE '06 yet? DO IT NOW... SPACE IS LIMITED!

gskill · Post by **gskill** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:36 am

Ah it’s great to live in paradise... I called Wiseley Insurance and they would not give a quote. They stated that they were continuing to cover existing policies however not interested in writing new ones in our area. They referred Atlas Insurance out of Melbourne who stated that only one company is writing in south Florida, Lloyds of London. I'm not sure who the underwriter is on my existing policy. He then stated that if I had a quote it is probably from Lloyds and that he could only offer the same premium. Afterwards I did call BoatUS and their price was $4800 with a 2k deductible. It looks like $2700 is not a bad price considering the limited options in this area. George Skillas 33 FBC Destiny - 1983 Deerfield Beach, Florida

Capt. Ed · Post by **Capt. Ed** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:09 am

When you have something to compare it with, it doesn't seem as high does it? One thing that I do to keep my insurance cost low is to determine the odds of a total loss vs the premium, and then self insure the amount that makes sense. Example, my boat was appraised at $86k, but I insure it for $60k with a $500 deductible at an annual cost of $1151, plus another $89 for $500k in liability coverage ($1240 total). While the risk of a total loss is low for me, and considering what the 'real' market value would be if I sold it, it makes sense financially to self-insure a portion of the value. I have done this for years on all my policies (except normal auto insurance, as it is always to the market anyway, unless it is a rare item then it is stated value). If you do this, you need to re-address both the level of risk you are assuming, the value, the market and the premium difference each year. Using your values and my premiums you could save say $1,300 each year, and if you placed that into an investment account it would grow and further reduce your cost exposure each year. At the end of the day you have the money in YOUR bank, not in the insurance companies. I had one total loss when a boat fell off the lift, I had an agreed value policy, as the repairs would have cost nearly 80 percent of the policy's stated value, they totaled it. I bought it back, repaired it for far less and was way ahead on the boat, and still had it as good as new and money left over. While I have had minor claims over the years, (less than 5), this was the first and only total loss of a boat in my 32 years of owning boats. So with the ever increasing cost of insurance this may be an option to control the cost, if you are willing to assume some level of risk. 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR BERTRAM PRIDE '06 yet? DO IT NOW... SPACE IS LIMITED!

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 5:49 am

The problem Ed is that getting insurance for 60k value is still 3k i will be shocked if your $1200 policy when time to renew is not doubled. I have only gotten 60k coverage for my boat and i was paying $1400 come August i have to find a new company and now that i have new engines my value should be 100k but will probably stick with 60k just to keep my premium close to 3k... George , Did you call lloyds?

sbeer · Post by **sbeer** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:20 am

Tim, 60,000 for your boat insurance coverage, wow. Maybe the deal here is to look at what it really is worth as far as coverage. Figureing that out with out letting your emotions take control is the scary part. I'm covered for 85,000, with what everone has been saying i am pretty close to value. Mike

Capt. Ed · Post by **Capt. Ed** » Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:52 am

I guess that I am lucky to have USAA for all my insurer, as my policy rates have always been low. If you look at what the real market value of your vessel is, then self-insure up to what you are comfortable with, you can reduce cost . I do not insure to the full market value, I generally self-insure 10-25% depending on the risk exposure, greater the risk, less self-insurance, less risk, more I am willing to take on. However, when you are with secondary market carriers, (such as Lloyds) the savings advantage is minimal do to the higher premiums. I just have been very lucky to be insured with USAA over the years. 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR BERTRAM PRIDE '06 yet? DO IT NOW... SPACE IS LIMITED!

gskill · Post by **gskill** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:21 am

Ed I understand your insurance philosophy and I'm sure that it works however with a $3400 deductible, double during named storms it would have to be a major event that would cause a claim. To be insured for, lets say 50,000, with a double deductible really reduces coverage. It appears that the insurance company has some of us both on the front end with the deductible and on the back end with a total loss or major event. Last year during Wilma I had some damage however not enough to reach the deductible. You might say that I am somewhat self insured on the front end. Tim, I am in the process of confirming the carrier. I called yesterday to attempt to modify my policy and am waiting for a quote. I dropped uninsured boater, medical and towing, hoping to reduce the premiums. Even doing this I anticipate a small reduction. According to my agent, the insured value is 75% of the premium. George Skillas 33 FBC Destiny - 1983 Deerfield Beach, Florida

Capt. Ed · Post by **Capt. Ed** » Wed Jun 21, 2006 2:55 am

You are right George, using a high deductible is self-insuring. However most companies limit the deductible to a high of $5,000. I prefer the lower deductible as the risk is higher for little things (under $10,000)occurring than a total loss, which is why I use a lower deductible. This is not for everyone by no means, as you are assuming risk like an insurance company and you can lose. I have some experience in risk management assessment, so I have a comfort level with it. But in the end, it is still all about betting on the "odds" (and adusting as they change). 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR BERTRAM PRIDE '06 yet? DO IT NOW... SPACE IS LIMITED!

Miss B · Post by **Miss B** » Thu Jun 22, 2006 12:46 pm

If you find a new carrier, you can check out the strength of your carrier on the A.M. Best web site. They follow companies and issue ratings on them based on financial strength, reserves, etc. Even the area where a company does alot of business is a concern. A company that has a high percentage of insured vessels, in a certain area, say Miami, where the threat of storms are real, may have a greater risk of failure than one where the risks are spread out through other areas of the United States of America. The site is www.ambest.com. It is good to do this as a shaky company with low rates is about as good as having no coverage. The company must be strong enough to pay off in the event of catastrophic losses.

gskill · Post by **gskill** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 12:54 am

It appears that there are very few choices for south Florida. As I stated in a previous note Boat US is $4800 with a 2K deductible. I tried some of the other suggestions in this thread without success. I guess I am stuck with my current insurance which has me over a barrel. They have increased the deductible from $3400 last year to $4200 this year with a double deductible for named storms and have also increase the premiums to $2700. Ed your advice is appreciated however it appears that I cannot reduce the deductible significantly to self insure as you suggested. They have us over a barrel. I am still exploring some options with my present carrier and will probably renew next week. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. George Skillas 33 FBC Destiny - 1983 Deerfield Beach, Florida

Capt. Ed · Post by **Capt. Ed** » Sat Jun 24, 2006 4:52 am

I understand, it is a difficult time for us all. Perhaps one day we will have enough Bertrams owners here to form a Mutual Insurance Company, and defer the greater risk with excess carriers. 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida HAVE YOU SIGNED UP FOR BERTRAM PRIDE '06 yet? DO IT NOW... SPACE IS LIMITED!

smithmk913 · Post by **smithmk913** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:17 am

Have been following the discussion re insurance for our 33's. I've been doing business with Peter Tyson since I bought mine in '89. He ran the insurance department for Richard Bertram, Inc. in Miami for years. At the last reorganization he moved to Vero Beach and started his own agency. He has always shot straight with me. I know that the coverage he puts me in will be there when a claim does occur. Not necessarily the cheapest, but of Bertram quality. Contact: Peter R. Tyson Yacht & Aircraft Insurance P.O. Box 4378 Vero Beach, FL 322960 772-770-0414 Toll free 866-305-0334 Give him a call, even if it's to run by what you've got. Good guy. Mike So Far-So Good II