carburetor

captgene · Post by **captgene** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 4:55 am

Tim, Electrical problems are the worst. Especially if you can get a hard failure to trace it out. You can also spend a small fortune on a hourly tech to look for it (and not find it). From everything I read here, it sure seems you are on the right track. I think as you put all the new hardware on it will make the problem worse because you up the voltage and amps with newer more efficient repairs. also sounds as if it magnifies as the engine gets to higher operating temp. I keep a total electrical tool box on my boat. Multimeter, Test light, and even a tone Generator, to trace wires in bulkheads etc. Doubt if you have a starter problem, although the solanoid sound like it may be corroded. also clean all the terminals with emory cloth and spray the crap out of them with that corrosion block ans you go through the elimination peocess. Good Luck! E.W. Dugan

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:41 pm

I got the starter and the slave solenoid on.cranked right up .i went down to check that the wires were tight and i accidently put my hand on the wiring harness.which made the engine die...i started the engine again and went down and wiggled the wires and the engine kept dying. for sure a short. i keep fixing one problem only to find another.i guess this is how the process works.so i for sure have a short in the wiring harness. now i have a problem..there is a 15"wire harness extention between the motor and the main wire harness this is where the problem is.i tried plugging in the wire harness without the extension ,the engine did not function properly.i realized that the 15" extention changes the wires slightly.after calling around today i think this is not a standard harness extension and must be a bertram modification and i am also assuming all 33s have this extension harness.anyone no where i can find one i tried high tide with no luck i supposed i could call bertram.My other option would be to splice the wires without the connector or have someone rebuild the harness.but i would prefer to buy a new one and i am growing impatient...i guess the good news is that this could be the major source of my problem the bad news is that i never checked the harness while the boat was running before (either did my well paid mechanic)i only inspected connections and corrosion while the engine was off. Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

franklyprice · Post by **franklyprice** » Wed Nov 10, 2004 3:58 pm

Very good Tim,It looks like you might have found a big source of the problem.Hopefully all of it. I`ve wondered about that harness also.I inspected it on mine and found it to be decent so I left it intact . I forget now why it`s there but came to the conclusion that if it gave any trouble I`d by-pass it . I don`t like any more connections than I really need.BTW , I`ve heard that if you over tighten the hose clamps on that connection that you can damage it. This is the connection I suggested you look hard at the female side of for corrosion but it may be in the harness itself or could be damaged at the connector. It sounds like you`ll find it now. In your mechanic`s defense, diagnosing an intermittent wiring problem is as tough as it gets. Frank Price

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:50 am

frank, you are so knowledgable you must be a mechanic? the extension changes the wiring, it loops 2 red wires togeather at the motor connector and deletes the red wire coming from the wire harness side...why i dont know but i guess this is why my motor did not run right without the extension.also the orange wire is used only on the starboard motor and is connected to the battery parralel. Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

captgene · Post by **captgene** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 4:39 am

Tim, I have had pretty good luck from the Allied-Richard Bertram Parts Mgr. at the Miami Facility. He is one of the old timer Bertram people, that know these older boats. They have a whole attic full of crap down there. I just started shooting notes to Allied and they got me the right person. I went thru all my documents, but I guess all the notes are gone. but go to the Allied Web site and start there I guess. Wonder if they used the cable extension for Gas, and another for Diesel? The boat is basically wired for both, and then fitted later in the build depending if they had the hull number sold. I have the schematics for mine, if you want to look at anything. E.W. Dugan

franklyprice · Post by **franklyprice** » Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:06 pm

Thanks Tim, I`m a mechanic of sorts. I restore cars for a living and have always played with engines, cars and boats.I would enjoy doing more work on boats because I see a need for good work ,though there are a few standouts in the field. Although I work on old Mercedes and Ferraris now, I`ve built my share of american engines . It seams odd that Bertram would have put that harness extension in just for the battery parallel but that was the conclusion I came to on my boat. It wasn`t the problem for me , so I let sleeping dogs lie. Frank Price

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:26 am

Problem finally solved... I ended up replacing the yellow start wire completely.I got the extension harness checked out and had the contacts cleaned it helped a little .but i also discovered the yellow wire had a scuff mark in it in the main wire harness leading to the bridge.it was scuffed at both ends of the wire and there was black going through the entire wire.The wire did not look bad enough to cause this much agony but i guess it was... thank you everyone!!! Photo Finish is back on the water.... Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

franklyprice · Post by **franklyprice** » Tue Nov 16, 2004 1:54 pm

Tim, Congrats. keep your jumper wire handy though. If I were a betting man, I`d say that the yellow wire wasn`t the problem with the stalling and that all this wire touching is what re-established a connection. With the engine running, you should be able to take that yellow wire right out of the boat without a hiccup from the engine.At least you know where to look now if the problem re-occurs.It sounds like your wiring is a bit corroded. In the process of all this looking and checking, I bet you learned a little? Boating is, in one way or another a huge educational experience, yes? Frank Price

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:02 pm

educational yes! I went from not knowing much more than how to change oil and plugs to knowing probably every part of a 454...In one sense the whole experience probably made me a better yachtsman and the info that i learned about the engine will help for many years.At the very least I have learned how to drive with one engine the hard way...hahaha. You are probably right about the yellow wire .in hind sight it was probably opening the prongs on the male end of the harness and having the female end cleaned completly that closed the deal.i suspect it is probably the purple ignition wire contact that is the main problem...however for now the engine is running good so maybe i might leave it as is for now.but like you said now I know where to look.... also I talked to an interresting man today in Miami he does the wiring on the 67' bertrams.he also said he remembers wiring our 33's.I asked him about the 15" wiring harness extension. and he told me that it was used to set the boat up for a possible second station and that it should be able to be deleted simply by disconnecting the #10 red wire at the helm on/off switch.which makes sense to me now why my motor would not shut off when i plugged the harness in direct to the engine without the extension. Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

franklyprice · Post by **franklyprice** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:19 pm

Tim, That`s very intereting about the wiring guy. I`m not sure mine is wired the same but in the spring I think I`ll try running it without the extrat harness to see what happens.I just pulled the heads off the starboard engines and that wire definetly goes to the battery parrallel solenoid on my boat. I suppose it could do something else also.... Frank Price

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:39 pm

you must be talking about the orange wire.... Why did you pull your heads? Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

franklyprice · Post by **franklyprice** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:58 pm

Tim, When I bought the boat last year I knew both engines were victims of bad risers sometime in there lives. It`s part of the reason I got it so cheap. Some of the cylinders had as low as 65 psi at cranking speed. When the riser goes bad ,the gasket between it and the manifold loses the seal and since the coolant is under pressuer in the manifolds, the coolant leaks into the exhaust ports, mostly after you shut it down. When an engine sets this way for any amount of time, the valves corrode and you lose compression.Since all boats use the same general powertrains, they all , sooner or later have this problem unless they have a different designed manifold/ riser setup.I knew I would run into this when I looked at the boat to buy it,so used it to the most advantage with the broker.They really ran great all summer and used no oil but I knew they would gain a little smoothness with fresh heads, so it`s one of the winter projects. The good news is that now that I`ve got it apart the rest of the engine looks mint. The cylinders are very clean with no pitting at all and no varnish or sludge. She`ll run sweet in the spring. Frank Price

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 2:04 pm

thats great news about your engine.How well did your engine run with only 65psi? Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

franklyprice · Post by **franklyprice** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 2:41 pm

Tim , If you heard them and I didn`t tell you, you`d swear they were perfect. I could hear them "huff" a bit at idle but that`s it . They ran perfectly. Frank Price