More questions from the newbie..

[IRGuy]

I am going to be looking at a couple more 33's in the next two weeks or so.. predominately FBC's, and since you all were so helpful with my earlier questions I thought I would ask another.. This will be my first looks at these boats, just as a sort of coarse filter to sort them out and if necessary eliminate ones with major issues or problems.. so, my question is.. What should I be looking for over and above the general items such as window leaks, obvious damage, wiring and plumbing condition, engine room cleanliness, etc. I suppose what I am asking is are there any more or less known problems that crop up in Bertram 33's that might be model or manufacture specific, as opposed to the usual issues that should be checked in any boat. For instance, in a personal contact a SF owner suggested I be sure to check both fwd and aft ends of the stringers to see if any tabbing cracks/delams are present, which he said might indicate the boat had been used hard and suffered some hard to see damage. I would naturally have any boat surveyed as part of the overall process, but I would like to have as much information as possible early in my investigations so I don't waste my or my surveyor's time. All comments would be appreciated, as I have no direct experience with Bertrams. Frank B Actively looking newbie

[Capt. Ed]

Frank The only advice I can offer you is to first look at how well the vessel has been maintained overall. Everyone will do the big stuff, but has the little things been let go? (they add up fast) Do they do all the work or have a professional do some or all? Sit down, don't talk, just stare at each area of the boat. Sit in the bilge and slowly look at everything, you will be surprised what you see. Do it all twice on different days if you like the boat, as you will see more after sleeping on it after the first viewing. If a vessel is well maintained, and the little things have been address quickly, the likely hood is that it will be a good vessel. Deferred maintenance, means that it is being deferred to YOUR $$$. For example, the window track leaks a little, did they repair it, block the leak hole only, or let it go? The levels from lack of, to no maintenance, translates increased cost respectfully. Really Frank it is just common sense, think about how you take of things and the pride you take in ownership and look for that. There is always going to be maintenance and repairs, even if it is working today. The surveyors will find anything that is a concern or you need to be aware of in the structure or engines. Speak with a few of the SAM accredited surveyors in areas where the boats are located. You will gain a great deal of knowledge and they may even know the boat you are interested in. You will also get a feel for the surveyors and the one you feel must comfortable with to hire later on. I have found them to be friendly and more then willing to share knowledge and advice with you. They inspect boats for a living, and see more things then you or I will in a life time. I always learn something new or interesting when ever I speak with them, (I have both an engine and hull surveyors as friends, so I feel very luck to be able gain there insight anytime I need it, or for them to look at something). I would ask the owners if they have a past survey (perhaps for insurance or when they purchased it) you could review. See how many things where noted, and how many are fixed? Ask if anyone who looked at the boat had a survey done also. You are doing everything right, gaining knowledge, asking questions and looking at lots of boats. All the best to you and enjoy the boat shopping! Capt. Ed www.marinesurvey.org/index2.html 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida

[BECCA ROSE]

On the FBC, pull the sofa out to see if you have rot on the bulkheads behind it. Check cockpit coring, especially behind ladder to flybridge. Cutless bearings for wear, see if generator is a ball of rust, might find some delamination of rear bulkhead on cabin especially at the bottom, see if exhaust side vents are still secure on inside of hull, see if the electronics actually work,... most of all don't put blind trust in any surveyor and read every thread written on this website, cross your fingers, and of course, no matter what it's a boat and something will go undetected and will go wrong, which will remind us all why it is called a B-O-A-T, and you will need to Break Out Another Thousand. Bill Dunlop "Rebecca Rose" 1988 FBC Ipswich, Massachusetts

[photo finish]

read this site from start to finish..that should make a nice list of things to look for. Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

[Jose Jaen]

Hello and welcome Frank B. Allow me to contribute to your search. I will start by confirming what you may have already noticed; that this is a superb site, very helpful to owners and conducted by experienced individuals eager to share their vast experience. We bought Blue Chip, a 1993 FBC with 320hp Cats in 1999 for 150M that passed both hull and engine surveys with flying colors. My wife and I use her extensively in Florida and the Bahamas solely as a cruiser. As was mentioned to you before by Capt. Ed and Tim, things will go wrong in any boat as time passes and a commitment has to be made finantial for the most part to maintain your vessel fit to provide the pleasures you are seaking with the safety you, your family and friends deserve. Blue Chip has given us many hours of safe and reliable joy under the worst circumstances since she has a proven hull(carefull with following seas). Expenses are reasonable (dockage, bottom cleaning, detailing etc.) compared with newer larger vessels of equal quality. In 6 years we have spent approximately 100M changing just about every system from the winlass to the generator including the head, the entire electronic package, most bilge pumps, stove, microwave, cabin decks, sofa upholstery and window treatment. This year the engines underwent what they call an upper overhaul, everything but rings and pistons. The AC, frig and ice mader are the original. Bill has given you an accurate description of what goes wrong with the bulkhead behind the sofa which I had to deal with too. The new generator has a sound shield protecting it from the water that inevitably runs over it due to its position. Inspite of the above efforts, we feel we are ahead considering how much a comparable new boat would cost. And believe me, in far away paradises like Harbour Island, 210 miles from home we have as much fun, safely, as the big boys in their megas. If this is the boat that interests you I encourage you to continue looking among the relatively few out there. Good luck Jose Jaen "Blue Chip" 1993 33FBC Miami FL

[Capt. Ed]

Well stated José! 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida

[Don33]

Re manufacturer specific issues, if you plan to buy a Bert with any damage to the rub rails, suggest you check out this thread:

Code: Select all

http://www.bertram33.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=127&SearchTerms=rub,rails

The rub rails can get scratched and dented fairly easily. I keep fenders at the ready.

[IRGuy]

Thanks to all above who once again have given me good info. I very much appreciate your taking the time to again share your experience with me. I have looked for the second time at the 33 FBC I mentioned in one of my previous posts.. spent a couple of hours poking and prodding.. the broker who accompanied me was kind enough to disappear for a while and let me look alone. This boat is a project! The hull and engines might be good, but the present owner has made a mess of the cabin.. the galley counter cabinetry has been crudely redone, the space behind the windshield has been filled with crude stained plywood cabinets, the floor has been covered with cheap 1/2" prefinished strip oak flooring.. also crudely done. I did find a couple of leaks eminating apparently from the flybridge.. the boat needs to have the cabin gutted and redone. Also found some delamination in the aft cabin bulkhead. The topsides have been crudely painted. The boat suffers from a general lack of maintenance and disuse.. I doubt it has been run 20 hours in the past 18 months. I suppose if the price was right and I wanted another project it would be interesting. I still plan on looking at some others but will keep this one in mind. I don't want to say much more at this time.. in case I decide to make an offer.. again.. if the price was right... who knows? I will let you all know what I decide.. I am not in a rush.. with the price of fuel these days used boat prices aren't going to go up over the winter. Stay tuned.. I'll be back! Frank B Actively looking newbie

[photo finish]

Frank, there are over 70 boats listed on yachtworld.com.You do not have to buy a local boat. boats can be shipped if you find the right one.Being patient is the key to getting the right deal on a boat. Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

[Capt. Ed]

Ditto Tim's post, is 100% right! Sure you could remodel it the way you want, which is a plus. However, if all the work the owner has been done is so poor, what makes you think the engines and hull will be different? You could ended up doing engines too... then all you did was buy an overpriced hull. Heck, you can go to Mobile, AL and find a lot hulls there CHEAP if you want a project! Why take on such a project when you can find a much cleaner and better kept vessel else where, that will be priced right. Trust me, the more you look, you will find a well cared for B33 that needs to be sold, at a good price. Time is on your side, look around the U.S., if you see one, call a local SAM surveyor, ask him to do a pre-survey, send you pictures of the things he sees, tell you what he thinks in general, and if it is worth flying out to see. I have done this with great success in the past at a minimal cost, sSaving me both time and money. TAKE YOUR TIME FRANK, YOU WILL FIND THE PERFECT 33 FBC BERTRAM FOR YOU! 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida

[Brian Davin]

I bought my boat in Jacksonville, FL and brought it north via truck, but had to take the flybridge off. Quite a project, but worth it in the end for the right boat. Before I went to look at it, I had the broker take a bunch of digital pictures for me to get a perspective before I flew down. Brian '90 Bertram 33' FBC Never Say Never Westbrook, CT (Homeport) Kinnelon, NJ (Home)

[photo finish]

Mine was trucked from wilmington, nc.I was lucky to not have to remove the flybridge.I paid extra for pilot cars that went in front of the truck to measure height.I think the height was a wee bit over the legal limit even with the windshield and steering wheel removed.If you do go long distant for a boat make sure you figure in transport cost.2-5k Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

[Admin]

Depends how long the distance is of course. My estimates to California were more like $10K from the East. David Sumich 33 Megabites Huntington Harbour, CA Forum Administrator

[Brian Davin]

I shopped around and got a good deal for $3,000 to transport mine from Jacksonville to Massachussetts. Tim, my trucker told me that the bridges down south are typically higher than in the Northeast, otherwise I might have been able to keep it on. Although from the bottom to the top of the windscreen is approximately 14', not even on the truck, and the over the road restriction is 13' 6" unless you have the pilot cars and sufficient known bridge height. I've seen some bridges on I-95 in CT that only have 13' 6" clearance. Brian '90 Bertram 33' FBC Never Say Never Westbrook, CT (Homeport) Kinnelon, NJ (Home)

[dougl33]

Brian, What was the name of the company you used? Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA