Question re: Differences between models

[IRGuy]

I have been searching for a Bertram 33 of the 1980's vintage which I could use as a family boat (have two small grandchildren) as well as possibly for occasional runs out 30-50 miles to the Gulfstream for fishing. I find ads for used Sport Fishermen, Convertables, and Flybridge Cruisers. I believe from the pictures I see on sites such as Yachtworld that some boat models are misstated in the ads.. especially in the differences between Convertables and Flybridge Cruisers.. Can someone please tell me what the differences between these two terms mean when applied to Bertrams? Example.. I just looked at what the broker said was a Convertable, however it was listed as a Flybridge Cruiser. Also, once I get the above straightened out in my mind, is there somewhere that I might find older Bertram layout drawings, sales brochures, photos, etc? BTW.. This is a GREAT SITE! Thanks to whoever started and maintains it!

[BECCA ROSE]

Handle it Doug... Bill Dunlop "Rebecca Rose" 1988 FBC Ipswich, Massachusetts

[Don33]

Others on this board will be able to provide you all the info you need, but just to get you some basic info on the 33, there are two models: the flybridge cruiser (77-92) and sport fisherman (79-92). The main differences between them is the cabin profile and size of the cockpit. The FBC has a fairly high deckhouse with a 72 sq ft cockpit whereas the sportfish model has a low profile deckhouse and a 116 sq ft cockpit with engine boxes. On both models the interior layouts and bridge configurations have changed over the years. Yachtworld is not always accurate in describing the models. In general, I would say that convertible and flybridge cruiser are used interchangeably. This is a great board with very knowledgeable Bertram owners and you'll find it an invaluable resource. Good luck in your search. quote:Originally posted by IRGuy I have been searching for a Bertram 33 of the 1980's vintage which I could use as a family boat (have two small grandchildren) as well as possibly for occasional runs out 30-50 miles to the Gulfstream for fishing. I find ads for used Sport Fishermen, Convertables, and Flybridge Cruisers. I believe from the pictures I see on sites such as Yachtworld that some boat models are misstated in the ads.. especially in the differences between Convertables and Flybridge Cruisers.. Can someone please tell me what the differences between these two terms mean when applied to Bertrams? Example.. I just looked at what the broker said was a Convertable, however it was listed as a Flybridge Cruiser. Also, once I get the above straightened out in my mind, is there somewhere that I might find older Bertram layout drawings, sales brochures, photos, etc? BTW.. This is a GREAT SITE! Thanks to whoever started and maintains it!

[Capt. Ed]

I would first determine how you will REALLY use the vessel 90% of the time, NOT how you think you will. That will help you searching both the style and engines for your needs. If you are mostly going to use it for family cruising and entertainment, I would lean towards the (FBC) Fly Bridge Convertible, over the Sport Fish model which has less cabin area, but more cockpit space for fishing. I have noticed depending on the year, that it was called a convertible and later a FBC, so it appears to be one in the same. You can also call Bertram, as they are very customer friendly. Good luck and you show great taste in boats too! [:D] Ed BTW, There was a year where they had to make a bubble in the hull to fix the trans. I am sure that someone else on the board can address that, as you will find a wealth of knowledge (and great people too) on this forum. 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida

[Capt. Ed]

I have the Power Boat Guide pages for both models. If you would like I can email them to you. Ed 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida

[photo finish]

Ed, Why dont you post the power boat guide on this forum.I am sure we all would love to see them.If you do not know how to post them i am sure you can email them to David and he can post them. BTW ,FBC stands for Flybridge Cruiser and yes the convertible and the FBC are the same model.If fishing is your main goal the sportfish is probably what you would want if you dont mind sacrificing a little cockpit fishing area and gaining more room in the cabin than the FBC is probably the best choice.For me ,because i have 2 young boys the FBC is my choice because we love to fish and dive but we also like to cruise on overnighters as well. Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

[photo finish]

IRguy , What port would you be hailing from? David is the creator and webmaster of this fantastic site. Ed you can probably email those powerboat guides to webmaster@bertram33.com David i am sorry if i jumped ahead of you.... Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

[Capt. Ed]

I have email mailed them onto Dave with hopes that he can post them without copyright issues. If anyone want copies, of those or other models just send me an email. Ed 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida

[Don33]

Agree with Capt Ed that, with grandchildren, you may want to lean toward the FBC since most of them will have two staterooms. Howsever, Bertram enlarged the cabin in the Sport Fish model in 1986 and this provided a spacious layout that's also cruiser friendly. Pre-1986 SF's are designed more toward fishing with their smaller cabin and huge cockpit.

[IRGuy]

Wow.. I found this forum and registered and posted my first question about 5 hours ago, and already am overwhelmed with the responses! Thanks to all... great info. Just a short introduction, since it appears all of you know each other.. I am a recent transplant from cold MA to warm North Carolina.. I see members here from the MA North Shore.. with boats from and around my old home port of Beverly, MA.. but I am now living along the ICW in Wilmington, NC. (How can you say no to a house lot that comes with a 35' slip in a protected basin 800 feet from the ICW?). I am semi-retired, and completing all the interior trim, built-ins, hardwood floors etc myself in a house we just had built.. Wife says I don't need another project but maybe she might notice the bigger boat in my slip. Have owned outboards and sailboats before but never anything like a 33' power boat. I will confess here and now, never to be discussed here again for obvious reasons that for 30 years I was an avid offshore sailboat racer and occasional cruiser. Have many Newport to Bermuda and Marblehead to Halifax races under my keel, but after the last big trip I decided I would retire from being either warm and damp or cold and damp and move up to a power boat. My slip is about 1/4 mile down the ICW from Carolina Beach Inlet. Locals here tell me that if you want to run the inlets and feel safe you need a Bertram or Hatteras. I have just begun my search in earnest, and am presently trying to firm up my requirements. With 2 grandkids a second cabin with two bunks would be great. I don't expect to do a lot of serious offshore fishing, rather I plan to use the boat for family cruising, so from what I have concluded a pure sportfish is probably not the way to go, and a Convertible/Flybridge Cruiser is the best for me. I have seen two local 6 pack charter Bertram Sportfish 33's (a good sign when local pro's use the boat!), and just recently looked at a FBC with the second cabin, which I liked a lot. The boat hasn't been used much in the last year by the looks of the dirt and green mold in the cockpit, but supposedly the Cummins engines are strong and the hull is solid, but the boat needs a ton of elbow grease and TLC. The broker was relieved when he learned I was not bringing my wife when I looked at the boat.. he says several wives have dragged their husbands away from her after seeing just the cockpit and salon. I usually don't get so verbal in forum posts, but since all of you were so accomodating I thought you should know who you are talking to. I am already coming up with more questions to ask, but will think a bit before I sdo.. in the meantime I will be here often. Thanks for the nice welcome!

[photo finish]

Welcome aboard Irguy, Funny enough I bought The Photo Finish in Wilmington last year.It was the first time I visited that town and thought it was beautiful. Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

[dougl33]

IRguy, Welcome aboard. I think you'll like the site. There are 2 different model types: Sport Fisherman (SF) and Fly Bridge Cruiser (FBC). Here is part of a posting I made a few months ago: The hulls are identical. 33 feet long and 12 1/2 feet wide. Weights are from a little under 21K lbs (gas) to just over 22K lbs (diesel). The hull is a deep V and carries a 17 degree deadrise at the transom. The 33 FBC has a much larger salon and is about 1 foot taller from the waterline to the top of the windshield. Because the salon is larger, the cockpit is smaller and the engines are located under the salon floor (straight drives, not V) and can be tricky but not impossible to service. The square footage of the FBC's cockpit is around 77 sq ft. They were made from 1977-1993. If my memory serves, from 1977-1980 the FBC came with only 1 stateroom (the v-berth). In 1981, they added a second stateroom on the starbord side and in 1982 I believe they changed the helm to a tournament (i.e. pedastal) style. In 1988 the fly-bridge was changed (on both models I believe) to come all the way down to meet the corner of the roof in back. Finally (I think) in 1990, they added a separate stall shower. The SF's were made from 1979-1993. They have a much smaller salon and have the engines in the (much larger) cockpit in engine boxes. As such, they are much easier to service. The square footage of the cockpit is a little over 100 sq ft. These boats always had the tournament style helm and never had a second stateroom. The first major change occurred in 1986 when the aft cabin bulkhead was moved back a few inches. Doing this allowed Bertram to move the head from the aft port quarter to the port side forward while adding a separate stall shower. Addtionally, the dinette was removed and replaced with a collapsible settee. Other than the affore mentioned fly bridge change in 1988, I think that was it for changes to the SF. The gas option on both boats were always 454's. Some were Mercruiser and some were Crusders. I don't know which years had which, but the majority of gas boats seem to have Mercruisers. The early diesel boats had Cummins 555's. I think they changed to Cat 3208's in the very early 80's (80 or 81). Others might add more or make corrections, but this is all off the top of my head. (How sad is that!) Hope this helps. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA

[dougl33]

Are either of these the boat you looked at: http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/ ... 57029&url= http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/ ... =1606&url= The 83 has been for sale for almost a year and half now and the 88 has been for sale for at least 3 years. (I look at yachtworld all the time) I'd make a crazy lowball offer on either one. Hell, the orst that will happoen is thast they'll say no. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA

[IRGuy]

Doug.. Thanks for all the info! I did look at the '83 you mentioned above.. it is a FBC with Cummins 315's.. very dirty and has a bunch of homemade cabinets and other stuff installed by the present owner. It even has prefinished oak elcheapo hardwood flooring installed on top of the cabin sole. Looks terrible! I think as soon as a boat owner buys a boat he by law should be stopped from ever again visiting a Lowes or Home Depot store to buy stuff for his boat! I have several other boats to look at.. since I just started looking at Bertrams.. had spent several months looking at other mfgrs and recently concluded I should go back to the old reliable time proven deep vee hull from a locally respected builder. The broker called me yesterday, asking of my interest.. told him I am interested in looking at other boats but will probably want a second look at the '83 since my first look was just a coarse filter.. to see if I had any interest at all. Several other boats I looked at were grossly misrepresented in Yachtworld. It seems that 90% of the boats listed are kept "under cover" by "knowledgeable owners" who had the boat "professionally maintained", but are now "two boat owners" who have recently "reduced the price" so the boat "won't last long". I would plan on renovating the boat myself, assuming the broker was correct when he says that "everything works" on the boat, and as far as he is concerned all that is wrong with the boat is cosmetic and visible. I did see one other thing that concerned me.. the few terminal strips in the engine room and under the floor I saw were rather rusty/corroded.. has anyone here done much rewiring? I have always done all my own work on my smaller boats, except for engine internals and trans. Supposedly the Cummins 315's have recently had their 500 hour servicing (they were new in 1999).. I am not sure what that includes but the owner is supposed to have all the receipts. I plan on joining the marine diesel forum as well. Been there quite a few times since I have looked at boats mostly with Cat 3208's and a couple with Cat 3116's. I am mentally filing away more questions for you guys.. I feel much relieved being able to talk with real owners with real experience. And thanks for the info on how long the two boats have been listed on Yachtworld.. It gives me a good tool when and if it gets to negotiation time.

[Capt. Ed]

Irguy, Sounds like you have found a perfect home, congrats. My I offer a few suggestions as you enter the world of powerboats. RULE # 1: Water seeks it own level or all boats will cost you the same. If you look at a vessel in need of repair and one in great condition, in the end you will spend the same or greater amount of money of the price of the second one. The only difference is one is a project and you will have it your way when it is done and the other is turnkey. This being your first time owning a power boat, and with so many projects going on at home, and a wife... go with the turn key boat, it will be a much nicer first time experience... trust me, I know! RULE # 2: Look at several vessels BEFORE you fall in love. Generally it is better to see a few "less" desirable boats, before finding the nice one. As this way you can appreciate the care that has been taken when you have something to compare it too. You will also be learning what to look for. RULE #3: ALWAYS get a hull AND engine survey by accredited surveyors. www.marinesurvey.org is a good source for finding these surveyors. These are TWO different surveyors, not one who does both. This is money very well spent, I have found boats I really liked, but found expensive problems during the survey. David Pascoe has an excellent book (see Links on this site) that will educate you on things to look for that and what they mean, what is costly and what is easy to repair. Knowledge is the key to happiness in both boat buying and owning (which is why this forum is so successful. RULE #4 If a boat has been sitting or not used very often, it is more likely to have more maintenance cost. The more you use a boat the better, when they sit things will freeze up, stop working (usually while you are offshore and need it) and the repair cost exceed the fuel cost of running it. Last and most important rule... RULE #5 Boats are to enjoy! For all the time and money we put into them, it is still a barging for all the wonderful moments we have with our family, friends or just being alone my ourself... its priceless (for everything theres VISA). One other thing, KNOW YOUR LIMITS, While the boat can handle the sea, too many boaters push their personal skills beyond their limit. Find a captain to help you with the inlet and learn how to read it, to understand the WHY and WHEN it is most dangerous to enter. Even the best operators can make mistakes, (look at the CG Lifeboat operators who landed on the rocks entering an inlet in high seas). Hope this helps, and by getting a Bertram, you have already increased your odds of having a great first time power boat experience. All the best and enjoy, Ed [8D] 1979 Bertram 33' FBC ALEXANDRA Port Richey, Florida