Hit Submerged Rocks - Seeking Repair Advice

Brian Davin · Post by **Brian Davin** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 1:27 pm

After 30 plus years of boating, it finally happened to me [:(] On Sunday, 9/4 when returning from an afternoon of boating out to Fishers Island (off New London CT) with some friends and two other boats from my Westbrook CT marina, I struck a submerged rock(s) 2 miles from my marina at 4:30 p.m. traveling at 17 knots, at dead low tide. The good news is that no one was injured, other than a 5 year old's bump on the head from a lamp that fell off the counter. Thank god it was a Bertram, as I sustained no leaks, as most of the damage was to the running gear. Sea Tow was great and was on scene within 10 - 15 minutes helping to assess damage and provide tow into my home port. Insurance appraiser comes to boat tomorrow to start the process, but I'm seeking advice on my repair options. Here's my specs: - 1990 FBC - Mercruiser 454's with 570 hours - Hurth 2.5:1 transmissions - Kohler generator 7.3 KW - 325 hours +/- ('99 or '00?) - 1 1/2 inch shafts - 3 blade bronze props (23 x 24 I believe) - Engines running great, but on long trips burning a little oil Extent of Damage: Props, shafts, struts, and rudders on both sides shot. Torque of the impact cracked open both transmissions. Cut on 4 foot length of lower chine on starboard side amidship. Seeking advice on following: 1. Do I upgrade to 4 blade Nibral props? Other? 2. Do I upgrade from stainless to aquamet shafts? Other? 3. If engines need to be pulled for repairs and transmissions both have to be replaced, do I use this opportunity to upgrade to New Engines and transmissions? Do I consider new gas (Mercruiser or Crusader?) or do I consider Diesel (Yanmar, Cummnins or Caterpillar)? 4. Any thoughts on saleable value of current 454's? I'm trying to make the best of my misfortune, but if insurance is covering transmissions, engine removal & reinstallation, new running gear, etc. .... should I use this opportunity to make beneficial upgrades? Marina is advocating for engine upgrade based on extent of likely insurance covered costs. I have been reading through many of the engine and prop postings for ideas, but am seeking your most current thinking/advice based on the above details and boat specifications. Thanks in advance for your help! Brian '90 Bertram 33' FBC Never Say Never Westbrook, CT

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:33 pm

Brian, If insurance is going to pay for the installation of everything as well as all the new parts that you described than if you were even remotely thinking about repowering than now is the time.you can buy 2 new crusaders without the transmissions for about 20k for both.Resale of your 454s is not very good.you would be lucky to get 3-4k for them in my opinion.as far as shafts temet25 is the latest and greatest alloy,that is what i went with.nibral props yes.3 blade will give you a little more speed and 4 blade will give you a smoother ride and better bite with less cavitation...you have to choose what is more important to you.The diesel gas choice is a choice only you can make ...now would be the time for that as well however your engine price will double at least and all the parts that the insurance is paying for will still cost you quite a bit more out of pocket for the upgrade to diesel...installation should only be marginally more. I am glad you and your family were ok hitting something solid is pretty scary. Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

Brian Davin · Post by **Brian Davin** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:54 pm

Tim, thanks for the input, this is very helpful. How did you decide on the 385hp Crusaders versus the 420 HO Crusaders? What were the Pros and Cons of each? For 20 - 22 knot cruising, would you go with the 4 blade?On your 385 hp Crusaders, are they counter rotating or is that in the transmissions? I'm wondering if there is an ease of installation benefit sticking with the Mercruisers or would the engine mounts be very similar with a Crusader? I had Crusaders in my 26' Bertram and 29' Blackfin and always had good luck with them. Brian '90 Bertram 33' FBC Never Say Never Westbrook, CT

franklyprice · Post by **franklyprice** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 6:41 pm

Brian, I agree with what Tim is saying. The diesel choice is one only you can make. I will say this; my past experiences with insurance companies has shown me that they will probably try to give you much less than you think you need to fix the boat.If this happens, you may have some luck going up the insurance company chain of command until you get some results. The other side of course is, if you DID want to convert to diesels, now would be the best time, since it would be a good idea to change all the running gear at the same time. I guess it comes down to how much money you want to spend. As Tim mentioned, thank God no one was hurt. You are lucky it was a Bertram with no core to mess up and thick enough glass in the bottom to keep it together. It could have been a lot worse. Reminds me of the saying, "There but for the grace of God go I." Let us know what you decide and what the insurance company says. It will be a good education for us all. Frank Price

lobsta1 · Post by **lobsta1** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 7:10 pm

brian, You will probably find that insurance will depreciate any machinery over 5 yrs. old. You might be able to mitigate this by pulling out any receipts you have for maintenance work. years ago, on my old Sea Ray I hit a submerged object in over 100' of water. Blew out the seal on the drive & the upper gear set eventually seized. By the time Boat/Useless got through depreciating & applying the $500 deductible, I was on my own. I fought with them, brought out my logbook & all the receipts showing that I had had the drive sealed every two years along with all the other maintenance that I did. Boat/Useless finally covered it 100% minus the $500 deductible. Good Luck Al 1978 33 FBC NITES OFF

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:48 am

The decision between 385 and 420 was decided after talking with crusader directly.They told me that with our heavy boats that the 420hp probably would give very little increase in speed.The 420s were more suitable for a go fast boatOther people told me that the 385 would probably last longer as well.Your mounts will have to be relocated with either merc or crusader .there is no modifications that have to be done to switch from merc to crusader. The transmissions on all the new gas engines handle the rotation as the engines all go the same direction. As far as props ...after all the testing and switching i did i ended up with 4 blade nibral....if i had to do it all over i am still not sure whether i would go with 3 or 4 blades.I like the smoothness and bite of the 4 blade but i lost 1knot.So i am very happy with what i have. Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

Post by **dougl33** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:15 am

Brian, Sorry to hear about your accident, but at least no one was hurt. You should take a look at the Tim's Repower thread in the FBC section as most of your questions were asked/answered by Tim (aka the repower trailblazer). As for diesel/gas, I guess it all depends on how you use your boat. If you fish then you could certainly use the range, but if you're strictly cruise then you could certainly use the money you'll save. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA

Post by **dougl33** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:36 am

Oh, and don't bother with the 420hp. Useless on our boats. Also, if you re-power with the new 8.1's you'll need to get new trannies as they are all standard rotation now. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA

Post by **Admin** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:20 am

Brian, glad to hear no one got seriously injured. Accidents at sea can be as scary of a deal as anyone would every want to face. I wouldn't throw out the 420 hp just because it won't gain you more cruising speed. If it can get you the same cruise speed as the 385 at a lower RPM, then I would think it would have the longer lasting value from running at lower RPMs, not the 385. That is pure speculation of course, but seems logical. If it is a wash for the RPMs also, then yes, they wouldn't make sense for the extra cash. David Sumich 33 Megabites Huntington Harbour, CA Forum Administrator

Post by **dougl33** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:06 am

Dave, The H.O's make their extra HP higher up, so you'll be cruising at the same rpms. Now, since the H.O.'s will run up to 5K rpms, you could cruise at 3750plus rpms, but it just doesn't seem right. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA

captgene · Post by **captgene** » Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:36 am

Brian, I would set myself up exactly the way Tim did. I could probably give on the shaft material, or using 3 blade nibrals instead of 4, but with all the research I've done along with everybody else on this site, Tim did it right. We all love Diesel, but you are looking at $40K more out of your pocket. Gene Dugan

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 3:04 pm

Not offend any of the gassers, but for myself I would only consider diesel power in our very heavy boats. You'll save a lot of money in fuel costs too. I'd vote for the Cummings 6BTA, 330 HP or more. My CAT 3208T's are good too but are quite heavy engines and are wedged in there pretty tight (check out pic below). If I had to repower I'd be probably be getting those straight 6 cylinder Cummings. Will end up with lots of room to work on them. Look in Boats and Harbors magazine, lots of good deals in there. Yamnars are nice too but quite a bit more expensive. Price the Cummings- I don't think they're all that expensive considering you're getting the labor for free. Hitting those rocks might turn out to be a stroke of luck by time you're done. How's that for a positive spin? [img]http://www.bertram33.com/images/uploads ... -after.jpg[/img] Sean Burlingham "Island Time" 1987 Bertram 33 SF Melbourne, FL SBurlingham@cfl.rr.com

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 3:59 pm

Also check this out from B31 site, Capt. Pat's gas to diesel discussion: http://www.bertram31.com/bb/bbs.cgi?noframes;read=67246 Sean Burlingham "Island Time" 1987 Bertram 33 SF Melbourne, FL SBurlingham@cfl.rr.com

Post by **dougl33** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 6:09 pm

Just re-read your post. I seriously doubt that the engines themselves sustained any damage. In that case you're probably looking at $3K for a pair of rebuilt transmissions ($6K for new), a couple of new shafts, struts, props, and rudders. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA

Rick · Post by **Rick** » Mon Sep 12, 2005 6:57 am

Brian, Sorry to hear it, glad everyone's okay. At least it happened toward the end of the season. When I re-powered in 2000. I bought Merc 454's w/ Tranny's for $8,200 per engine. Doug's right, they don't make counter-rotation any more. But with these, you just run one of them in reverse while you're actually in foward. They literally just dropped in and replaced the worn out Cruisaiders. Total cost with labor was roughly $22K. Was looking at diesels and the lowest quote was $75K. So I settled on the Merc's and figured that if I wanted diesel boat that bad, I should just go buy a diesel boat. I'm sure the numbers are different these days but I hope that helps. Was great to see you at Green Pond, thanks for stopping by ! Rick Ticket 85 SF Falmouth, MA