Repower

will newton · Post by **will newton** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 3:38 am

Currently have the factory installed MerCrusiers in a 1989 FBC. Have about 900 hrs and everything is running great (minor time related issues such as risers and manifolds replacements). However, I can't drive 19knts anymore!! Also would like to have my fuel gage point to starboard for a change. Have looked at Boatdiesel.com forum for repower Bertram 33 stories. Looking to learn more. Currently drooling on Cummins B330 or would consider Cat 3126 350...both would fit nicely. Have a friend who just repowered a 1986 Bertram 35 with the B 330. Hell of a job and a great rig now but the cost/return for the FBC 33 is pushing the line. Anyone who has done this job on the FBC specifically, please let us hear from you.

Extractor · Post by **Extractor** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:22 am

Will, it is my understanding that it may be possible to pick up a pair of the cummins out of California, for a deal. Apparently , in the land of fruits and nuts, diesels are being phased ou due to emmissions. Might be worth a look. I agree that paying retail stretches the return on investment down the line. Good luck, Extractor

will newton · Post by **will newton** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 7:28 am

Ron, Have seen the California engines leaving town over the past few months. A lot have been older Detroits which are way too heavy for the 33. There are a few FBC and Sportfish on the market which have been converted and they seem to be stagnet in this current market. Most seem to have gone with the Cummins 315 hp which will push the boat around 24 kts. My debate is (which is nothing new to a repower project) if I spend the money for the repower I'll be into a FBC for about 150-160K. Current asking price for 1985-1987 FBC with 600-1000 hrs conversion engines seem to hovering around 120-140k (but don't seem to be moving which is not good for them). Sportfish has a bigger market for a conversion and sell a bit quicker....am I wasting my time/money repowering a FBC. The FBC is a great boat for my purposes and location but seems to be an inbetweener when it comes to converting economics...not big enough for the more seasoned crusier and too big$$ for the just starting out ...Just stay with gas and forget the whole damn thing....the debat continues. Will

Fish Stix · Post by **Fish Stix** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:58 am

quote:Originally posted by will newton Currently have the factory installed MerCrusiers in a 1989 FBC. Have about 900 hrs and everything is running great (minor time related issues such as risers and manifolds replacements). However, I can't drive 19knts anymore!! Also would like to have my fuel gage point to starboard for a change. Have looked at Boatdiesel.com forum for repower Bertram 33 stories. Looking to learn more. Currently drooling on Cummins B330 or would consider Cat 3126 350...both would fit nicely. Have a friend who just repowered a 1986 Bertram 35 with the B 330. Hell of a job and a great rig now but the cost/return for the FBC 33 is pushing the line. Anyone who has done this job on the FBC specifically, please let us hear from you.

Post by **Admin** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 9:58 am

I think what it really comes down to is how long you want to keep the boat. If you see yourself having it for a long time, I wouldn't really worry about resale. I have heard of boats with amazingly high hours on diesels (like over 6000 hours!), and if you are going to keep it for a long time, this will definitely pay off in the long run. David Sumich Bertram33.com Forum Administrator

Fish Stix · Post by **Fish Stix** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 10:15 am

Let me try this again. Check out the MAN D0836LE401 newly out. It's a whole 14 inches smaller in length than my present 3208Ts with height and width notably smaller and 400 lbs lighter. At 450hp, you'll need to have a go at the shafts and struts, but the smaller package will allow easy alignment with the new geometry. A little pricey at $32K with ZF's, but not outside the realm of possibility. I looked at the Cat 3126s but it appeared to be a very tight squeeze. These new MANs, if my figures are correct, should be an ideal fit for us in the 33FBC class when our 3208s finally retire. The torque curve on the D0836LE401 is rather interesting in that it's almost completely flat at 970 ft-lbs. With that torque, we could step up to a 2:1 and/or 4 blade wheels. And at 14 gph, fuel economy should remain about the same (I'm thinking 1 gallon per knot @ cruise.) Let me know if anyone has any experience with this package.

skyking · Post by **skyking** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 1:45 pm

Hey Will...I've been going through this same dilema for almost the past year. My 1982 33FBC has a good running pair of 350hp/454cid Crusaders. I only cruise at 18 knots and the fuel consumption is rather heavy. But as best as I can figure it, a gas-to-diesel converstion is going to be at least 60 grand!!!! New struts, shafts, props, plus the labor to do it all will end up in that price range. I can't bring myself to do it, I really like the boat, its in super shape, but its hard to justify that kind of investment. How many hours will I put on the boat, do I want to deal with the aggrivation that goes along with the repower ?????????? Its a tough decision, let me know what numbers and other ideas you have about this, OK Thanks Ken www.kenliller.com

TonyNJ · Post by **TonyNJ** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 6:17 pm

Will, I looked at the new 385 / 425 hp Crusaders. I was quoted a price of $12,900 per engine w/ gears for the 385's at the AC Boat Show. With the Crusaders you should be able to keep your running gear but would have to add additional fuel tanks for added range. I was told by the Crusader rep that the new engines burn 25% less fuel than the 454 carb engines. On the other hand you would have to burn an awful lot of gas to make up the cost difference of the diesels and parts, maintenance and repair costs are a lot less with gas too. Just something to keep in mind TonyNJ 1985 B33 "Wetted Bliss"

will newton · Post by **will newton** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 3:14 am

Thanks for all the input on the repower idea. I knew I was not the only B33 owner out there continplating this move. Thought it would be a fun topic to hash out. As a few of you noted, this really comes down to "do you just want to do it" as there is not much in the economics that help...(I think I figured you would have to keep the boat 8 years and put about 150-200hrs a year on it to be near even). The new electronic gas engines are pricy and I understand you have to do almost as much modification to install them so savings is slim and performace although better, I have been told that economy on a boat as heavy as ours is not 20% better as ad advertises. Never looked at the MAN's....that is a lot of HP and $$$ not sure if Napier ever figured on the hull cruising at 28 to 30 knts...mine gets a weird steer at wot. I had a repower professional in Ft Lauderdale tell me the struts and shafts will tolerate the 6b330 cummins package and the space is adaquate in the FBC and SF (although sf need to modify the boxes somewhat for height). As for exauhst, he said he has done some 33SF using the exsisting side vents and the rear combination just changed the muffler and a bit of the piping and it worked fine and saved big bucks. He said every install is different and both Cummins and Cat will check back psi carefully before they release the warrenty. Cost on new exaust system is near 5-8K when you include labor so not a little number. In Florida, the best proposal I've gotten is from Cat with the 3126 350 hp at $15,900 (3126 300hp has been discontinued but are still out there and are cheaper) a side with ZF 220a 10 down gears. Install is near $15,000 (with total new 5" rear dumping) including a Phasor (Kabota) gen set. Cummins is a about $17,000 a side. Enough...I got the sickness bad. But they sure would sound good!!!

skyking · Post by **skyking** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 11:06 am

Will, I think that a gas repower with the Crusader 385hp/496cid engines are the way to go. You can still use your old shafts,struts, and exhaust sysyems with these engines. they even have a kit for $115 to add so you don't need a FuelInjection return line to the fuel tank. I my case my Onan 4.5 gen/set which was just overhauled and works great will still be usable. I've seen these eng/trans for 12K ea., thats alot better than 22K for the Cummins 330b's. plus all the other mods that have to be added in. A cruise speed of 20 knots or so is about the best i'd say we'll get from our 33B's unless you go for "big bucks and big horsepower".These are heavy boats, and need a ton of hp to push them faster.(IMHO) If you plan to keep the boat(which I do) and put around 300hrs a year (which I don't)on the boat, it's very hard to justify 60K+ , for a diesel repower. I'd really like to do it but can't justify it (but I'd still like it). My 2 Crusaders run good, so for now I'll be sitting "on the fence". good luck, stay in touch...Ken

captgene · Post by **captgene** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 5:14 am

I guess I can add my 2 cents worth. I ran a Commercial Dive Boat for 10 years...swore I'd never own a "gas" boat. The 33 presented itself and had gas...but what the hell, I'd run them til they died and put in the 330 Cummins. Well the 340 MCs haven't quit yet. I don't beat them, just cruise about 18-19k. A friend o mine has a 32 Luhurs Open. OK boat, but not a Bertram. $80K repower with 315 Yanmars! Insane. A new Genset was included. Goes fast though. 55 gal vs my 120 from Boca to Bahamas. My vote: The 8.1 Crusadars with ZF gears, or the PCM 8.1 Probably 35K installed. You can buy a lot of gas with the 40K you didn't spend. Or move up to the 37 Bertram for about $200K E.W. Dugan

Post by **dougl33** » Wed Oct 22, 2003 8:20 am

I have to agree with EW and all the others pushing the 8.1s. I think they offer the most bang for the buck that we can get with these boats. I'd bet you could cruise at 20 or 21 knots with the 385hp Crusaders. I know all of the 31 guys scream for everyone to re-power with diesels, but thats because for the most part they got into their boats for a lot less money than we did. I spent $82K for my 86 with 900hrs on the Mercs. I now have 1100 hours on them and I can still cruise between 19-20 depending on the load and the conditions. I would love to be able to cruise at 22 or 23 knots as the boat gives a tremendous ride at those speeds, but I can't justify dropping $60K to $80K to do it. As was previously mentioned, I'd rather sell the 33 and buy a 37 with diesels for $190K or less. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth

will newton · Post by **will newton** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 8:04 am

Good input all. The 37 Bertram would surely be the next boat of choice for me. What a sweet rig with the 692s. I must admit, the repower question keeps me up at night...sure would be fun to go 24 knts!! But, then again you hear the god awful stories about diesel owners trying to chase down expensive problems. Got a friend here who just had a Viking 45 go down on him. Cat has spent the better part of 2 months trying to find out what is wrong and they are 3208s. They keep telling him "it looks like a rebuild is the only solution". Glad to have gas when I hear what that repair bill is going to be. Weather is beautiful today in North Florida and the Blue Angles are flying at Jax Beach this weekend...good day to run a gas powered boat offshore I'd say!! EW, where do you go to the Bahamas and only burn 120 on the crossing? Will Newton 33FBC

lunderic · Post by **lunderic** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 1:33 pm

I repowered a 33 sf with 330 B's. They fit with no modification to the engine boxes. I used the original struts with new cutlass bearings for 1.5" shafts. It's a great boat with these engines. I can easily Canyon fish from Long Island and have plenty of reserve fuel. If you have any questions send me an e-mail. Eric \ Lunderic@aol.com

Post by **dougl33** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:02 pm

Eric, What do you cruise at with the Cummins and what did you do about the gennie? Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth