Transom cleats.. Sanity check please?

[IRGuy]

Having removed all the crappy white paint the previous doofus owner applied with a nap roller from the whole flybridge, cabin sides and foredeck I am now working in the cockpit. I have the side panels out, and am now puzzled about how to remove the transom panel. This panel is a single piece, with the two transom cleats attached through it to what feels like solid blocks of wood. I can't see anything behind the panel, just can feel something solid. This AM I did a search in this forum on "cockpit cleats" and am puzzled. It seems some boats have solid blocks of wood to which the cleats are screwed, and some have some sort of wooden boxes that the cleats are through bolted to. In both cases I believe the blocks or boxes are glued/tabbed to the transom inner surface. I also note a few pictures that show the cleats being mounted through a seperate piece of composite material about 12"-14" wide(Wilsonart stuff?) with a seperate center section, while mine is a single panel from one side to the other. I can't tell if the four cleat fastenings are wood screws or through bolts, but I can say that they are impossible to turn with the largest screwdriver and a crescent wrench I have in my tool shop. Can anyone shed some light on this issue for me?.. Was there a change from a solid wood block with wood screws to a box with bolts somewhere in the early 80s? If so, does anyone know when (my boat is an '83)? Your input would be very much appreciated!

[Rick]

They're machine screws & nylon lock bolts secured behind the "U" shapped block Frank. You have to get a box wrench (5/8" I think) behind those screws. If you stick your hand back up in there, you'll feel them. There's only enough room to turn the bolts about an inch or two on each revolution but it won't take as long as you think. Rick Ticket 85 SF Merc 454 MPI's Falmouth, MA

[Spidermw81]

I just removed the rear panel on my '82/'83 FBC and there were not any blots on the back. The screws were threaded into the aluminum lock plate. Unfortunately corrosion cause a couple of the to bind and I sheered the screws apart. When putting the panel back on I used large washers, a locking washer and bolts. I had to redrill holes in the aluminum plate behind the wooden "U" shapped block on the transom. It also caused me to have to cut the aft board so I could get a wrench in there. Very ghetto but it worked. If there wasnt a hurrican coming I may have tried to get a new lock plate but I needed cleats. Good luck getting them out. I hope you have better luck than I did with it.

[IRGuy]

Thanks Matt and Rick... When I went to the boat today I decided to look carefully at how the cleats were mounted.. after close inspection with a mirror and feeling what little I could with just my fingertips I found in fact the cleats were mounted to a plywood box, but I couldn't feel where the nuts were, just something sticking through the forward face of the box. I tried to turn the bolt heads with the largest screwdriver I could find, but they wouldn't turn. I had pretty much resigned myself to replace the two cleats on the foredeck with stainless ones since they were chromed bronze and were pitted, so I decided to simply cut the two transom cleats into pieces with a thin cutting wheel in my side grinder and replace them as well. After cutting both of them off I was able to take the transom cockpit panel off and found I still couldn't turn the bolt stubs even with a large pair of vice grip pliers. After reading your note Matt I believe my setup is like yours, with stainless bolts screwed and frozen into an aluminum backing plate on the back of the front of the hollow box.. hence no nuts to feel, just the stub ends of the bolts sticking through the back of the plate. When I replace the transom panel I think I will do what I saw in someone's cockpit pictures I ran across in my search this morning.. a short piece of panel behind each cleat, and the middle large section of the panel seperate from the two cleat base pieces. This will allow me to do what you did, with bolts extending through the aluminum plate, and nylon insert lock nuts with backup washers holding them in place. There is more than one way to skin a cat, as the saying goes.

[Spidermw81]

Frank, God bless dissimilar metals in a salt water environment! The mistakes I made with bolting the cleats on was: 1: I drilld holes in the aluminum back plate without lining it up to the "U" shapped bracket, the tolerances are close so best bet it to mark it in place then drill. (seems obvious but go figure!) 2: I bought the same length bolts as the ones I removed, 2" I believe, but as you stated there is very little of the 2" bolt sticking out the back. Hence I had to revisit the hardware department and get the three inch bolt. All was well after that. Again, good luck and let me know what rig you came up with!

[IRGuy]

Matt... I am planning on moving the new cleats about 3/4" away from the holes the original cleats had, and through bolting them. What remains of the existing bolts are still in place (I only cut off the heads, and I can't unscrew them because they are stuck fast in the aluminum plate).. I think I will just grind the remaining shanks of the bolts off flush with the plywood, and leave them in place while I install the new cleats, as they keep the aluminum plate held firmly to the back of the front piece of plywood.

[No Yacht Yet]

Frank Check the condition of the tabing on the boxes. Mine were ready to rip off. I know that a few of us on here have redone them. Brian 1986 Bertram 33 FB Cummins 6BTA'S Seahorse Ellisville Harbor, Ma

[dougl33]

I agree. Its the tabbing that causes the issue. They'll fail. Its a matter of when, not if.

[IRGuy]

Thanks guys.. I will check today.. yesterday was a short day in the building where the boat is located due to a power failure, so I didn't get a chance to do anything other than cut all the bolts and wet everything down so there was no chance of the sparks starting a fire. I am leaving for the boat in a few minutes. BTW: The two corner hawse pipes on the transom gunwales are quite pitted as the chrome has worn away over time (they are also chrome over bronze, the same as all the cleats), and today I will order new ones. I have found good prices and quality all stainless parts at www.unicornstainless.com. I bought all new handrail fittings from them a while ago.. they match the original fittings. They have almost everything you can think of in marine stainless parts.

[IRGuy]

Brian and Doug... Because of your suggestions I looked closely at the fiberglas tabbing this AM, and while the port side box seemed quite solid, the stbd side had a 4" crack where the side of the box met the transom, and the same side had some fiberglas that had seperated from the wood. I cut away the loose and cracked material, and ground the surfaces of the fiberglas on and adjacent to the boxes so clean raw fiberglas is now exposed. Tomorrow I will wash the ground areas with clean acetone and lay up several layers of heavy glass cloth and thickened epoxy to reinforce the existing glass on both boxes. If it had not been for your suggestions I might have given this area a quick look and just replaced the panel and installed the new cleats onto the boxes as they were. This might have been OK but I feel better knowing I have perhaps eliminated what could have one day become a serious problem!

[dougl33]

I would add some extra glass to the other one as well.

[IRGuy]

Yep.. I am doing both boxes. I don't plan on seeing them ever again!

[dougl33]

Smart move.

[IRGuy]

Just to wrap this subject up after grinding down all the glass and wood surfaces on the inner side of the transom and the two boxes that the aft cleats were fastened to last week, yesterday I laid two layers of 1708 heavy glass cloth and three heavy coats of thickened epoxy resin over the boxes with heavy tabs and fillets to the transom. Now I need to repair the panel which covers the aft end of the cockpit (there are several dings and cuts, so patches and fillings are necessary), then I will reinstall the panel in 3 pieces so once the end pieces are on I can rebolt the two cleats to the boxes and remount the center section. Thanks to all who offered info and suggestions.. I feel much better knowing the cleats will be solid again.

[Buy2ls]

Here is a pic that might help those in the future [IMG]http://i1017.photobucket.com/albums/af2 ... -10039.jpg[/IMG]