Bertram 38 querry

Symeon · Post by **Symeon** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:47 am

I am looking for an upgrade from our B33 SF. And though it is damn hard to find a good quality Bertram in Greece - so many have had 'expert' hands meddle with their top quality authentic structures - I have found a clean B38. The only problem I have found are her engines: GM 275hp (=underpowered). As she is dry docked, a sea trial for speed and handling with such small power, is not easy. Does anyone have any input on B38 and whether such underpowered engines create any seakeeping difficulties?

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:21 am

What engine is it 8v53. I think Bertram either used Detriot 853's or Cummins 903's in the wide body Bertram 38's built in the 70's. I've been on a 38 years ago. I think it had Detriot 8v53's. From what I remember it ran OK but this was back in the 70's when boats where a lot slower. The boat I rode on didn't have any sea keeping problems. Those engines would run forever but leaked oil and were noisy. You may want to go over to Boat Diesel and ask about those engines in a Bertram 38. Buzz

lwrenn · Post by **lwrenn** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 1:44 pm

Is that a wide body 38 with the mystery out side stingers? C series cummins should do the trick.

schultz · Post by **schultz** » Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:39 pm

Symeon, I really dont think you will have any seakeeping issues with a 38ft Bertram no matter what the power. It's a bit of a beast and with only 275hp plan on a 13k cruise perhaps 18k WOT. The Detroit 6V53 and 8V53 are big and heavy and for the most part bullet proof (change oil, filters regularly, take care of the heat exchangers and do not abuse them) they last forever, but smoke on start up and when cold. Likewise the Cummins 903 and little brother the 555's are big, heavy and for the most part under powered. However the US Army installed these engines in thousands of trucks and tanks. Like the Detroits do not abuse them and service them and they give long life as well. I have always believed that it is not a bad engine, rather it is for the most part a bad owner/operator whether it is a boat, aircraft or car engine. In over 45 years of boating from coast to coast in the US I can count on both hands the times I have observed an owner climbing down into the engine room to check fluid levels. These are the same guys that start up and go to WOT as soon as possible. Then return at high RPM's to idle without concern of cooling down turbo's if installed. The 38's are about a 31,000lb boat. If you want a 24k cruise you are going to need about 450 to 500hp to do that. As always you need to ask yourself what do you need for performance and what are you willing to pay for it.

Symeon · Post by **Symeon** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 1:58 am

I do not know whether it is the wide body, I do not have the papers yet. As for the engines, I just dont know anything about the GMs and what's more, I dont know how these boats handle in heavy seas when so underpowered ... As for the philosophy of maintenance, Cliff, I fully agree with you; something I particularly enjoy in my current 33SF due to the incredible proximity and ease of access to the engines, where they are constantly cared for ...

Post by **dougl33** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:39 am

What year is the boat? One of the 31 guys bought a gas powered 1978-79 38. He re-powered with 480hp Cummins and could easily cruise at 27 knots with a full tower.

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 6:37 am

In heavy seas a 38 with old heavy Detriots isn't going to be a problem. The problem comes on good weather days and everyone blows by you. It's more of a question if you can live with the slow cruising speed. Years ago there was a charter boat in our area that had over 20,000 hours on his 8V53's. Buzz

lwrenn · Post by **lwrenn** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:10 am

One just sold in my area 77 wide body that had been stripped down to stingers. The running gear was there with a tower $1500. The guy plans to slant 671's in the boat as he had them. Not a bad design and a lot more space than the 33. I thought about the hull as a project, but one project is enough!

mistersea · Post by **mistersea** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:52 am

I have a 1983 B38 that is powered by 300hp 3208 Cats. If you are not in a big hurry, the 300hp engines are fine. Depending on load, I can cruise in the high teens without any trouble. I spend most of my time operating at trolling speed. R.

buzzk · Post by **buzzk** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:42 pm

I would think a wide body (1970's model) 38 would take more power than a Bertram 38 III Convertible. Buzz

Symeon · Post by **Symeon** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:53 am

It is not a wide body (1977) but rather a convertible III (1983?) model. I am planning on repowering with at least 450 if not 500. I have two questions: #1. Does anyone know which engines would be ideal for such a repower? #2. Did Bertram construct their boats according to engine placement? In other words, if a boat was ordered with 275hp, was it constructed with less fiberglass layers, less stringers, etc since less thrust, or were all boats built the same irrespective of engine horse power? Basically, can I repower without fear of structural weakness when a boat has lived for a quarter century with 275?

Post by **dougl33** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:14 pm

All boats were built to the same specs and tolerances. Having seen Tom Ward's 38 with the 480 6CTA Cummins (which I belive was a 78 and gas powered), I'd say that's the way to go. As I said, that boat had a full tower and cruised at an easy 27 knots. Charlie knows Tom better than I do, so maybe he'll chime in.

lwrenn · Post by **lwrenn** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:12 am

Cummins C sreies or Q series engines, light and fuel efficient. I am a Cat fan but the new Cats are very expensive, I found ten thousand plus dollars differnce and still the weight thing comes to mind. Being that your on the other side of the pond what about MANN Engines. They make a 500 hp and your are close to the parts.

Post by **dougl33** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:26 pm

Mann-grenades!

Symeon · Post by **Symeon** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:20 am

Yesterday, boat in water and off for a test drive! It was an entirely different experience from our 33SF ... everything was so much larger and the small waves did nothing ... it was like walking on water. Trully impressive. The engines were wrongly informed by the broker, they are Detroit Diesels 275hp. We came to a plane at 12.5 knots and cruised with 16.5knots at 2350rpm. The owner did not want to go full throttle ... Though impressive seakeeping and space layouts ... my humble opinion is that it was too big to single handle ... As for engines, the Detroits (275) were nearly touching the top of the engine room, I dont know if 500 would fit ... too many questions ...