B33SF_Right Stuff_Palm Bay FL

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:20 am

Symeon... I think we are all "raining on your parade" so to say... but most of us have owned several boats and know from experience to be very careful if we have any misgivings about a boat purchase. Maybe things are different in Greece, but here I think almost all of us take comments from a broker very cautiously. When I was buying "Phoenix" the seller's broker was a very nice guy.. and told me several things about the owner which were a big help to me in the negotiations, but he also told me several things about the boat that turned out to be untrue.. I don't think he was lying to me, I just think he told me things the owner told him without verifying them.. and I found out later the owner's word was not good. He (the owner) misrepresented to both the broker and me, a lot of things about the boat. In regard to the dark floor area in picture 26 I don't think it is simply a shadow.. you can check it when you see it personally. No matter what the reason if it is wet, it is a problem. The engines deserve careful inspection.. in the US some sellers are known to do an "aerosol overhaul", meaning they paint the engine using a couple of areosol spray cans and then say it was recently rebuilt. If the boat was never used in Greece I suppose it could be, as you say, imported by the broker to resell, but regardless there are a lot of questions that need to be answered. I become nervous when I see things that are different than what the broker says, or if I can't get believeable answers from the broker to my questions. One last piece of advice.. in buying real estate or boats.. do not fall in love with either until you have done all your homework. (This might also apply to wives, but we can discuss this at another time). Don't let your friend be blinded by "this is the only Bertram available" or "I really want THIS boat no matter what questions remain". With real estate, boats and wives.. making a mistake in aquiring either can be a very expensive lesson when things later are not as you first thought they were! Post pictures and let us know how things went when you met the broker. Frank B - IRGuy@aol.com The weak will inherit only whatever the strong are willing to let them have! "Phoenix" 1983 FBC Cummins 6Bs - 315HP Wilmington, NC

schultz · Post by **schultz** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:57 am

Hi Symeon, Looks like you have been busy with many of the issues brought up. I am still on the road, NYC at the monment but will be home this weekend and will send the info I have in my file on the boat from a couple of years ago. It is the same boat you are looking at. The other boat the Florida broker sent picturs to me was infact a boat from Louisiana that I also recognised from my shearch for the right boat. The reason I brought up the issue of an auction boat is that in one of the photo's you attached with the info from Greece shows a document next to the cabin door that is a little hard to read but it looks like it says Auction Agents Only or something like that. You apperar to be approaching the boat with caution and I think that is what everyone would like to see so that a potential buyer not get burned in some way. The fact remains that this boat that I felt was suspicious a couple of years ago, now shows up in the Med. tends to make myself even more suspicious of its pedigree. Will send info as soon as possible. Regards,

lwrenn · Post by **lwrenn** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:15 am

If the boat was documented (is required in my thoughts) in the states the coast guard in Maryland will have records that should match the boat from the hull id number, number panel in the engine room separate from the bertram id number (number plate in engine room mounted different from hull id) or name. I called them on such a problem and they were helpful. Now they aren't as easy on doing the correct paper work. This shouldn't affect you in another country but cover all bases. The state of Florida will help you over the phone especially if you are inquiring about the numbers, title and registering. I would do a Google for the USCG documentation office in Maryland and Florida tags. Both should have contact information. The fact that the seller will have only discuss clean title in person does worry me. Either he has title or doesn't, bill of sale will not help you when someone claims this to be there boat and has title in hand. I hope this; that anything I brought up helps you and if you aren't going to fish the boat you should have no problem selling the rocket launcher and riggers. They are great boats and with some TLC so will this one be! If you need some one to do some phone work for you in the us just ask, I have a couple of hours I can donate as you have peaked my intrest! USCG WEB http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/nvdc/ Florida titles http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/faqboat.html Good Luck and keep us in the loop Captain Larry Wren 305-360-4900 www.apirateschoice.com [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... Choice.jpg[/img]

Post by **dougl33** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:44 pm

Doesn't look like its currently documented: http://www.st.nmfs.noaa.gov/st1/CoastGu ... yName.html Go to the link and do a search on Right Stuff.

schultz · Post by **schultz** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 3:05 am

Symeon, I got home earlier than expected and located the spec sheet on "Right Stuff", from September 2006.The claim then was the boat was located in Key Largo, Florida. If you have a fax number I will fax the 3 page spec sheet to you. The broker at the time was listed as Florida Yacht Sales 1100 Sixth Avenue South, Suite 203. Naples, FL 34102, USA Phone 239-430-2600 I don't know if Yacht World Keeps files on past listings but the number was 35904-1551153. The engine hours on this sheet claims 785. Like I said I kept track of the boat on Yacht World for over a year. During that time the price went down to $99,000. I never saw any "Sale Pending" claim for the boat on the site. If I do fax the sheet to you the top photo of the port side is a photo of a different boat (from Louisiana) not listed with the Florida broker that I was talking to. Because he could not or would not explain this and was working over time to get me to send money sight unseen on the boat was why I lost interest in it. Hope this may help.

Symeon · Post by **Symeon** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:43 am

Gentlemen, Apart from the truth of doing careful due diligence search on everything - including wives - the remainder story for this particular boat is as follows: The broker states the following: There is no need to drive 3 hours, as he will bring it to Athens next week. The engine hours (400) posted was a printing mistake and the actual is what the tachometer shows on the picture. The darkness around the floor outside the head is spilt oil. The rust in the engine room is indeed an issue. The papers of ownership are completely clean; he has changed the flag to Greek Registry and it is in his personal name with all taxes paid for. Furthermore, he is willing to give a personal guarantee of 1 year for everything on the boat! Mechanical, electrical, hull and fixtures! Is this for real? I am talking to my lawyer (my wife!) to see if he can really be held accountable as such. The boat was indeed used for professional fishing, but it has been 'prepared' for personal use. He also says that he bought it without a genny and he will be able to install another if need be. He also said that he will pay for putting it on the dry dock for land inspection after a successful test drive. Though admittedly we were hesitant with your perceptive thoughts, comments and insights, the trouble is that he is so confident we are inclined to believe him ... but it is still early days as we have not performed a physical check yet. Regarding the broker in the US, I called but apparently the phone is no longer in use ... according to the operator. So, developments keep coming ...

schultz · Post by **schultz** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:23 am

Hi Symeon, All of that is interesting. Good Luck!

lwrenn · Post by **lwrenn** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:42 pm

Sounds good but I am not buying the split oil. gaurentee is to good to be true! I would get in writing and have him escrow a lot of money for a year to cover(not sure haw your legal system works but my experince they will promiss anything untill they get your money and then deliver nothing back when you need srevice). He must have got the boat for a very low price at an auction to throw in a generator. Sounds like it all good!!! I would hire the best buyers boat inspector you can get along with Yanmar tech. Good luck and enjoy your boat if you buy it![:D] Captain Larry Wren 305-360-4900 www.apirateschoice.com [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... Choice.jpg[/img]

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Fri Nov 14, 2008 1:47 pm

quote:I would hire the best buyers boat inspector you can get .....still interested in that trip to Greece

Miss B · Post by **Miss B** » Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:01 pm

OPA !!

Symeon · Post by **Symeon** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:34 am

OK, though it has been a while, I am back with news and pictures. Though for all of us boating is a passion, not all of us have the luxury of time. And, if we do not work, we are unable to pay for this passion ... hence my recent absence. Nonetheless, we had a meeting with the owner / broker and we also went for a test drive. Below are my written comments, and then I will try to post the pictures, which I hope will not be too much of a challenge. According to the owner, the boat was reposessed and he purchased it and brought it to Greece for personal use but is now placing it for sale due to wanting something faster (he is a broker of fast off shore boats - verified). We were able to take some decent pictures (neither of us are photographers!) which say quite a bit; particularly to a trained B33 eye! The weather was superbly calm and so there was no challenge - but then again, we were not there to try the B33 hull, which goes without saying! The good conditions enabled us to roam around and inspect inside hatches and engine boxes while under way without much danger of falling. There were no strange noises, and everything was in place - given that the boat was completely empty (as can be seen from the pictures) it was easy to check. The speed was an issue, because there was no GPS or tachometer to measure, but the engines (at this initial test) were relatively smoke free (as per yanmars) and the acceleration even after cruising revs was impressive. A side note, which may even be a different thread, was the positive impression speed gave me when the entire boat felt alive having lifted outside the water practically - but that is a different issue all together. The interior, though clearly money was planned on being spent, is a strange (and sad) amalgam of expensive and cheap, as well as classy and ugly to both eye and touch. We were impressed with the hidden LED lighting throughout, with dimmer switches! We were also impressed with the high quality dinnette and galley. However, the wood panelling throughout and what was left in the cabin, have been so cheaply put together with such sloppy manner, that it is hard to see how, without tearing everything out, it can be made to look half decent. As such, this was our strongest downside to the boat. In short, the dealer is willing to place a guarantee on the engines (and boat parts) for one year, written and confirmed as an individual and not as a company (which he may close!). He said that the service on the engines would be undertaken by him, and we were welcome to check the hull when it came out of the water - some time in December. My friends verdict was that for a boat built in 1979 costing 80,000 EUROS he can wait to find another B33, and even bring one in better overall condition from the US. But that would require more time, which, during the current global economic crisis, is proving to be a sound decision ... So, without much else, I will terminate here and try to upload the pictures. P.S. As for those who wish to come to Greece, please do not be deterred by the riots you may have read in the news. Yes, it was a problem, but it has nothing to do with boating! Regards,

Symeon · Post by **Symeon** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:39 am

hmmm, any chance of getting help to upload pictures?

Post by **dougl33** » Thu Dec 11, 2008 8:48 am

Symeon, Try this thread: http://www.bertram33.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=85

lwrenn · Post by **lwrenn** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:02 am

Sounds like our eyes were and thoughts were very close to the real picture! Captain Larry Wren 305-360-4900 www.apirateschoice.com [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... Choice.jpg[/img]

Symeon · Post by **Symeon** » Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:47 am