1971 Fuel Tank poll/thread

Mike T · Post by **Mike T** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:54 am

OK first the good news. The aft deck on my 35' Caribe is 4 pieces, plus the hatch. I would have guessed one piece, but after looking at how narrow it is in the middle, one piece construction would probably snap under it's own weight if lifted. It's very basic, Â¾" plywood with stiffeners underneath, and a couple of supports, supported along the outer perimeter by a fiberglass flange. Sliders can stay in place, there's a removable piece of teak under there (and one that stays). Starboard deck piece can probably stay where it is (supporting ladder to the bridge) if I go with 2 or 3 smaller tanks instead of one large one. Thinking about future repairs/cleaning/access, ect. Now the not so good news. Flybridge is original, still caulked to cabin roof, and hardwired. So I need to make a decision: A) Start cutting wires. Maybe the instrument panel will fit through the dash cutout if I can get enough slack in the harness. Time consuming but I think it can be done. B) Start cutting the tank. Only problem is I need to get the fuel out of there first, plan to dillute it with good stuff and run it in my truck. It's all old gas by the way, non ethanol. Kind of a big job to be doing that far from home (could make for some itchy rides home) C) Put the boat in next spring and run it. Here's where I have questions. Should I still drain all the old gas? Or just add some Stabil to almost 3 year old gas? Maybe put the new gas in the day I launch? How long before it starts to eat the tank? Should I go for one long run before I decomision the tank? Hasn't someone come up with a filter that will protect my engine? What is the best filter out there right now? Double up on filters? I was gonna post this in the ethanol sction, but that's on the bertram31 site. [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sra ... c6ed0f.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sra ... c6ed0d.jpg [/img] [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sra ... c6ed10.jpg[/img] Thanks

Post by **dougl33** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:14 am

How much gas is in the boat and where is the boat located? Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

Mike T · Post by **Mike T** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:59 am

The boat is in Fall River. Not a bad ride by car, but by boat, well there's the Cape Cod Canal for one thing, plus anything else that could go wrong.... I haven't gotten a good reading on the tank, yet, sending unit may be stuck. If I was sure they were full perhaps Stabil would revive 2 1/2 year old gas? Doesn't sound like a good idea. I did read on the 31 site about "completely draining" the tank before adding ethanol. I guess to sum up my ramblings: If I drain as much gas as I can using my electric inline pump/siphon setup, would adding ethanol fuel get me home? In other words, timewise, do I have 24 hrs, 48, 72, a week, or a month before fiberglass breakdown occurs. I realize there's some guesswork involved here, but this is the Bertram site so feel free to give it an educated guess..... Safetywise, I know the bridge removal is the way to go, but I do need to explore the other options. Thanks again

Post by **dougl33** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:21 am

Fall River is probably about 80-90 miles from Salem. What are you running for engines? Do they work? What do you think you'd be able to cruise at? I'm guessing you've got some kind of big block, either GM (454's) or Chrysler (440's). If you think they'd run OK, you could cruise them at 17-19 knots and burn around 30-35gph. Probably close to a 5-6 hour run at that speed. Figure you'd burn between 150-210 gallons for the trip. Here's another thought, you could head up to NH or Maine and buy non-ethanol gas and bring it down in jugs over the course of the winter to fill the tank. Lots of mileage on the car, but probably the cheapest way out. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

Mike T · Post by **Mike T** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:56 am

Chrystler 440's [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sra ... d7d2b1.jpg[/img] Maybe I should retitle this thread to "WHERE IN NH CAN I GET ETHANOL FREE GAS?" I have a full sized pickup, a 25 gallon portable Tempo, half a dozen jerry jugs..... Putting it in at this time of year, if I had any bad luck, would have meant taking it back out again, and could have cost me some coin. If I wait till spring, I start the trip, and get back one way or the other. I actually called Sea Tow a couple times the other day, but they were busy, I was gonna ask them if they could assist me on an off day. Tip em $500 - $1000 or so. But if I can get thee right fuel in there.........

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:57 am

I would ditch the old gas! Make sure you have sea tow and run the boat home. If you are thinking about removing the flybridge to truck it for that short of distance i think that is a waste of time and money.

Mike T · Post by **Mike T** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:32 am

quote:Originally posted by photo finish I would ditch the old gas! Make sure you have sea tow and run the boat home. If you are thinking about removing the flybridge to truck it for that short of distance i think that is a waste of time and money. Thanks Tim, I figured the old gas had to go. I do have Sea Tow. A lot of people are telling me to just run it home. It's the putting ethanol in an older fiberglass tank that has me concerned. I tried googling "ethanol free gas in NH", without luck. Be nice if I could get a couple hundred gallons delivered to the boat! I don't want to remove the bridge either!

Post by **dougl33** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:05 am

Mike, I found a doc online from 2006 that stated that the 4 South Eastern NH counties (Merrimack, Hillsborough, Rockingham, and Stafford) were required to sell RFG and therefore are now selling ethanol. Maybe the more northern counties are still selling non-ethanol gas? Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

Mike T · Post by **Mike T** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:27 am

I did find this one Doug. http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaane ... ofuel.html Now, if I can just fly the boat to Plymouth.

Kidding aside, if ethanol's a true "solvent", I suspect it could break down the fiberglass in a short period of time. I know I need to start pumping the old fuel out of there. And the tank removal's gotta happen anyways whereas the bridge removal, yeah it's the cowardly route.... lol Edit, I just called that airport, and no, they will not sell to us Bertram owners..........

lobsta1 · Post by **lobsta1** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:34 am

Mike, I would siphon out the old gas over the winter. Put about 200 gal. of new eth. gas into her in the spring & run it home. Even if the eth attacks the tank, I sincerely doubt it will do it that quickly. I would have new Racors installed with severall spares aboard. The eth will act as a solvent & scour all the old junk out of the fuel system. It is possible you could go through a few filter changes. Al

captgene · Post by **captgene** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:55 am

Yikes! The old fuel probably is toast, and there more than likely there is sediment/water in the tank already if the boat has been sitting. I would clean it all out and put two inline Racors in there to get it home. They are 10 Micron filters. Fill it up with E-10 and take off. Definitly sign up for SeaTow before you leave! Gene Dugan Boca Raton, Fl. "Nauti Marie" 1989 33 FBC

Mike T · Post by **Mike T** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:58 am

That's what I wanted to hear lobsta1! Hopefully someone will jump in here if that's a bad idea. I have a 25 gallon Tempo I could plumb in for getting her going in the spring, and for launching. I was hoping if I put the ethanol fuel in that fiberglass tank the day I leave, and set the timer (joke), she'd get me home. Then I could decomission and cut the tank up at a more leisurely pace, closer to home..... I'll check out the Racors as well. Thanks

Post by **dougl33** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:34 pm

I don't know that I'd go that route. That's a long way to go on a big "if". Many of the first people that had ethanol problems had them pretty quick. Some people had issues after 1 tank and others had issues right after leaving the dock. Also, most of those were in older Berts like yours. I hate tyo say this, but unfortuantely your boaty is the poster child for ethanol related issues. You've got all winter to try and figure out a way to get some non-ethanol gas down to Fall River. There's got to be a place in Maine thats not selling ethanol. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:47 pm

Buy more jerry cans and fill some each trip...lol

franklyprice · Post by **franklyprice** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:37 pm

Mike, I hate to say it but I agree with Doug. The gas in Maine is not mixed with ethanol yet, so that is a way you can go if you want. Your boat is old enogh that you should look hard at the inside of the gas tank, chances are that there is significant degredation already and the ethanol will just loosen it all up , leading you to believe that the ethanol ate your tank instantly when it really is a gooey mess already. I think if you can drain the tank and the inside looks clean andd shiney white, then you might have a chance of it making it home but your chances of that are slim to none , considering it already has some questionable gas in it already. I seems like the best thing to do without taking a bunch of backwards steps would be to replace the tank over the winter, then you're ready come spring and you should have a safe trip home. Now if it were me, I would inspect the tank carefully after draining it, as I mentioned before and if it did look pretty clean I might be willing to take the chance on the trip home with new gas but you would have to be really into the condition of the tank. Without a good look and maybe some poking with a stick, I wouldn't take the chance. By the way, from what I understand, when a tank does fail, the goo goes through filters and wrecks your engines, so if you question the integrity at all, don't run the new gas.