Diesel Repower

Terry Ray · Post by **Terry Ray** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:28 am

Gentlemen, Greetings fron South Texas, yesterday I became the proud owner of a 1981 33'FBC. We have dubbed her "Little Dog", I will not kid you, she is rough. Purchased from the original owner, she has been in the same covered slip all of her life. Unfortunatly she has not been started in almost 5 years. Last night we moved her from the slip to the boat yard and began what will be the long process of refit required to bring her back to the classic status that she deserves. Tommorrow a young energetic group of guys eager to learn how to refit a boat will begin the process of removing every thing that has a screw in it and striping her to a bare naked hull. This is not my first refit, my last was a 1988 46'FBC called "Big Dog", I guess you might be starting to catch on to the names; Yes, there is also a Shallow Dog,Air dog,Duck Dog,and Fast Dog. Some people just have to work on a boat! I found your forum just last week and am enjoying all of the wisdom contained within. I will try to not ask questions already asked or do things that are just plain dumb, I will however make mistakes and for that I ask that you bear with me.I will try to get photos to post as soon as possible. My first question is one that has been asked a hundred times, if you were replacing your 3208's what would you consider putting in. I am partial to Cummins, want common rail, expect electronic controls, and need to see what other people have found fits. I would like to up the power somewhat as this boat will be used closer in than the long offshore runs that we make in the Big Dog. I prefer engines that are in the mid range horse power to cubes range, given that I have owned a set of 565 HP twin dry turbo 6V92's that most still classify as grenades. We envision this boat to be more of a show boat than a work horse, she will be faster than others and will be used for Friday night cruises and Saturday morning fishing trips to the close in Gas wells that exist in our area. Your comments will be most appreciated and I look forward to your wisdom as we start this long journey. Always Remember "Live life large, you may not live as long as you think you will" Best Regards Terry Ray Port Isabel, TX 1981 33'FBC "Little Dog" .

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:49 am

Terry.. I am happy to be the first of many who welcome you to this forum. I myself am a relative newcomer, having bought my '83 FBC about 18 months ago. She was/is a "project boat", so I am aware of what faces you. Many here will willingly offer their suggestions based on their experiences to you.. just ask a question and you will get answers. Re: your specific question about repowering from Cat 3208s to Cummins.. that is what happened to my boat. I have a set of Cummins 315 HP 6Bs.. the original engines were Cat 3208 260 HP, which was the Bertram std diesel in the days when these boats were built, although I believe there was a higher HP Cat option available. The 6Bs weigh about 800 lbs less each, and with greater HP and torque and 1,600 lbs less weight you can expect to move your boat 23-25 knots, up from probably the 20 odd knots she did with the Cats. Several regulars here have recently repowered from gas to diesel, I believe I have the only boat here that had a Cat to Cummins conversion. The installation is clean! More room to work on them is a real plus! Cummins has for sale warranteed remanufactured engines, in fact Bill D here ("Becca Rose") just installed a set. I have a local Cummins rep who sells them and is very interested in selling more, and his prices are right. I also suggest that you become familiar with the "search" function for this forum, located in the top right corner of this page.. keywords such as repower will give you a ton of reading. After a while you will recognize some of the names and the projects that go along with them. If you want to talk one on one post your email address here and we can get in contact. This is often a better way to have long discussions, and at your stage long discussions will probably be the norm! Good luck, and welcome! Frank B - IRGuy@aol.com "Phoenix" 1983 FBC Wilmington, NC

Sean B · Post by **Sean B** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 6:02 am

If I had it to do all over, I'd probably buy a gas-powered beater B33 cheap, and use the money I saved to put in the reman 6BTA's or the Yanmars (depending upon my cash flow). Aussie Syd went through all that recently and seems very happy. I think 330 HP should be considered a minimum for these boats. My 260 HP 3208's struggle at times to maintain 21 knots, which seems to be the happy planing speed for these hulls. I've had my boat up to 28 knots a couple of times, while dead empty of water, almost no fuel, no people, clean bottom and gear, genny was out, wind was at my back.... (you get the idea) and she handles great at the higher speeds too. 370 HP or better Yanmars would be my dream engines. You should probably consider a shaft size upgrade into your calculations too. Sean Burlingham "Island Time" 1987 Bertram 33 SF Melbourne, FL SBurlingham@cfl.rr.com [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... d_Time.jpg[/img]

Post by **dougl33** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 7:23 am

Terry, Glad to have you aboard. I just re-powered with RTO Cummins 6BTA's at 300hp. As Frank said, as these engines weigh much less than the Cats, I plan on cruising between 22-24 knots. I like the Cummins over the Yanmars as they are slower turning engines, but I think you'd be fine with either. While I think either the QSB5.9 330's or 355's offer more than enough power, if money was no object, I'd probably go with a set of Cummins QSB5.9's at 380hp. The QSB's are Cummins electronic version of the 6BTA and are still fairly low revving: http://www.cmdmarine.com/PDFs/4081898_0207.pdf Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

BECCA ROSE · Post by **BECCA ROSE** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:24 am

The only "bad" thing about the new electronic diesels is getting someone to work on them. The old school diesel guy that is in your area probably has very little experience or knowledge about these engines. They are very different, with very different problems when they arise. Ask your Cummins guy near you and see what he has to say about working on the new type engines, you might be surprised by what he has to say. I'm glad I got the old school mechanicals... Bill 1988 33 FBC Ipswich, Ma. > ~------- [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... a_Rose.jpg[/img]

Post by **dougl33** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 9:42 am

Bill, Have you spoken to Currier about the QSB's? Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA [img]http://www.bertram33.com/photogallery/p ... sabeth.jpg[/img]

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:59 pm

Terry, If $$$ isn't too much concern I'd go with Yanmar 370's or 440's new with 1.5:1 gears. It seems that yanmar boats are turning better cruise #'s than cummins (based on B31 and B33 owners). If you've got room the 6CTA cummins is a great motor, get one at 400hp and you'd have a good package. I went with rebuilt Cat3126's 420hp mechanicals for my B35. I did the research and they hold up well after the weak items (block and injectors) have been replaced/adressed. I've got good local support and not so deep pockets. While weight vs. hp has an effect, it's been my experience with Bertrams is the more weight the better the ride, it just takes hp to push them. I've been on a friend's B35 with 3208's and she rode differently than my B35(use to be gas) not just faster but more stable. When I finish my conversion I'll be able to comment first hand. Other's have done well loosing a little weight and hp remaining the same or a little more (3208 => 6bta). choosing the power for a clean slate is part of the fun. John D "Lady D" Bertram 35 Pasadena MD

Terry Ray · Post by **Terry Ray** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:39 am

We have spent the weekend removing everything from the boat to see just what we have. Boy! Did the previous owner have a bunch of crap i.e, weight in the boat. On the subject of engines, I have just repowered my 46' with Cummins QSC 8.4 533's. I understand and have a good relationship with Cummins, I would like to stay away from the hottest engine in a particular block size, I do not want to overblow an enine, I don't think that it is smart. I would like to install an engine that has a commercial rather than a recreational rating. In the next week we will will be removing all exterior stainless and chrome items, thru hulls, vents, decks, towers, and anything else that is attached to or goes thru the hull. The hull will be sanded, repaired, and painted. when the hull was hauled we did not observe any significant blisters or water seaping from the hull. I expect we will uncover any defects when the blasting and sanding is finished. I will be looking for advice on the refinishing of the interior as it is original, has anyone ever removed the interior? Does anyone know how much AC is required to keep the interior cold, it is much too hot and humid to run with windows open 5 -6 months of the year. Additionally we live in a hypersaline environment that pitts the aluminum windows and outriggers. We have had good experience rechroming the more important parts on the boat however, we will be exploring new parts when the cost is comparable. Has anyone had any luck painting aluminum frames or ouriggers? I will considering a replacement set of window frames although my preference would be to make the front windscreen solid and install framless tinted windows in the sidepanes of the salon. I guess the decision to keep the original look will have to be made. What does the group think, will I be ruining the boats classic lines if I modify the window system? Well this about covers the Saturday activities, We took a lot of pictures yesterday, I will try to get them posted this week to let the group see what I am starting with. I must have inspired the troups as I had 6 young bucks eager to learn about boat rebuilding yesterday, we,ll see how much interest we have thru to the end. Till the next report! We will start on removing the engines Terry Ray Port Isabel, TX 1981 33'FBC "Little Dog" .

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 4:22 pm

Terry, You have the sister ship to the "Photo Finish". What is your hull id #? It sure sounds like you are not going to fool around. Are you using awlgrip for paint? Does your boat have the stock ac of a 16000btu condensor and a 12k blower in the salon and a 4k blower in the v-berth? If so it keeps my boat plenty cool here in Florida.I run my air 24/7 I have done much of the interior but is always a work in progress.I removed the cabinets resurfacd them and replaced , I installed mahogany floors and wood shutters.Ikept the galley the length of the starboard salon . I did exchange out the forward cabinet and put a full built in under counter freezer there. I like the idea of glassing in the front window and do not think if you choose to change the framed windows it would offend anyone. As far as blisters I know that i have plenty of small ones that i will have to deal with soon. I am not worried that they are a problem at all.But i would like to soda blast all the paint buildup and repair them sometime in the next couple of years. Good luck with the refit and show us before pictures of all areas.

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:12 pm

Tim... Any chance of getting some pics of "Photo Finish's" interior popsted here when you get a chance? I am considering options now for a renovation of my interior. For your floor did you use a mahog veneer of solid wood? How did you resurface your cabinets? Did you do all this yourself, or did you have a shop do any of it? Frank B - IRGuy@aol.com "Phoenix" 1983 FBC Wilmington, NC

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 5:47 pm

Frank, Here are 2 links to my repower and pictures of my interior. The floor is solid Mahogany tongue and groove planking (3/8" i think)that i bought at lumber liquidators and had a local wood worker install them for me. The cost for the wood and labor was around 2k. The cabinets are just formica covered by a local cabinet shop to match the mahogany , the top of the counter is formica as well.I do not remember how much the resurfacing cost but it was pretty cheap to do all maybe $300. The cabinets in my boat were good solid wood cabinets so they were worth resurfacing. If I were to do it again I would use a real wood veneer.I would still like to replace the oak look formica that is on my walls with a wood veneer someday as well. http://www.bertram33.com/images/slide_s ... urbish.htm http://www.bertram33.com/forum/topic.as ... %2Crepower

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Sun Jun 24, 2007 8:45 pm

Thanks Tim.. Will look at the links after I type this.. I do my own woodworking and have a couple of pretty good local places to buy hardwoods and veneered plywoods. Been looking for ideas, and have saved a bunch of interior pics from various web sites.. mostly from B33s I have seen on Yachtworld. The doofus who owned "Phoenix" before me used Bruce self adhesive 5/8" oak flooring he bought at Home Depot to recover the cabin floor.. whenever I get PO'd about something I walk down to the boat and spend a hour or so prying that crap up. The workmanship is terrible.. He also had started to cut down and narrow the stbd side counter, not sure why, but he said once he was trying to get more floor space. I plan on a complete replacement of the cabinetry, there is nothing left worth saving. I am thinking I don't want to go with all stained wood because I wonder if the interior might be too dark.. maybe have the cabinet structure made of white composite and have all the doors, drawers and trim be mahogany. Decisions, decisions! Frank B - IRGuy@aol.com "Phoenix" 1983 FBC Wilmington, NC

IRGuy · Post by **IRGuy** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 3:30 am

Tim... Great pics.. Thanks! Two questions.. It looks as if your aft cabin bulkhead has mahogany colored veneer on it.. did you do this, and if so how did you handle the aluminum window trim tying into the now thicker bulkhead? And.. it looks as if your stbd side counter is built on top of the engine hatch. Are there any provisions to remove that engine in the future without damaging the cabinetry? I have been considering building a two piece counter/cabinet so if I need to work on the stbd engine I could move the cabinet out of the way. Frank B - IRGuy@aol.com "Phoenix" 1983 FBC Wilmington, NC

Terry Ray · Post by **Terry Ray** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 4:13 am

Tim, Your boat looks great, we should all be so lucky! I need to make a correction, My boat is not an FBC it is a 1981 Sportfisher. The cabin wall is just forward of the engine hatches. Worked on the boat a little yesterday but, I needed to pay some attention to the Big Dog, she's getting jealous. Terry Ray Port Isabel, TX 1981 33'FBC "Little Dog" .

skyking · Post by **skyking** » Mon Jun 25, 2007 6:34 am

Terry Ray....congrats on your new Bertram and welcome aboard. You will find many very knowledgable Bertram people here. The wealth of information I have gathered here is invaluable...thanks again too all. I have owned "Blue Chip" (1982 33 FBC w/Crusader gas) for 10 years now. Other than repowering (w/Cummin 330's someday I hope) I have done a lot of refitting myself. After having bottom blasted, I was happy to discover an almost perfect bottom, then I barrier-coated bottom. Istalled a Marine-Air one piece 16,000 btu unit under strb.side cabinet, which worked out better than expected. Florida or So.Texas might be a diff. story. I also reconfigured the counter-top in salon...permently removed oven, and repaced w/2 burner electric cook top. Shortened the length to accomadate a recliner on strb. side (pics available if anyone's interested). As I use "BC" for mostly as summer house and limited cruising, the repower in not a top priority (read 75 g's short) but would like to do it in the future. My gas tank problem is now the main issue. Anyway congrats again, welcome aboard and good luck with your latest Bertram refit. Please post some pictures, I'm pretty sure everyone would like to see your work in progress. Ken p.s. why are you posting in SF section rather than Conv. section ???? AIM: skyking4ever + 3 hrs. EST