Repower

lunderic · Post by **lunderic** » Sat Dec 06, 2003 8:53 am

Ken, Oceanside is in Nassau County on the South Shore. The marina was Crow's Nest. I just went down to the boat and dug out all the snow. I guess the season's over! I'm going to pull it out next week. Good luck, Eric

will newton · Post by **will newton** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 8:49 am

Just to kick a dead horse harder...spoke to the Crusader guys up in Michigan. The 8.1 385hp seems to be doing well in the market place. The significant difference between this power option and the MerCruiser (it is the same GM block) is 1) Crusader uses the GM fuel pumping system where MerCrusier uses a different system. Merc has had trouble with vapor locking. 2) Crusader uses GM's computer system which has a pretty good track record. Merc is using a combination of their own and another supplier which apparently is not as reliable. Cooling system, water pump & location, serpintine belt, hardier mounting points are a few other checks in Crusader's favor. Installation will require new trannies in my case (I have counter rotating 454's) and the new engines will have to be slid aft about 6 inches which makes for a pain. Price is high at $12500 a side. Nothing is ever easy!! Will

will newton · Post by **will newton** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 8:51 am

Just to kick a dead horse harder...spoke to the Crusader guys up in Michigan. The 8.1 385hp seems to be doing well in the market place. The significant difference between this power option and the MerCruiser (it is the same GM block) is 1) Crusader uses the GM fuel pumping system where MerCrusier uses a different system. Merc has had trouble with vapor locking. 2) Crusader uses GM's computer system which has a pretty good track record. Merc is using a combination of their own and another supplier which apparently is not as reliable. Cooling system, water pump & location, serpintine belt, hardier mounting points are a few other checks in Crusader's favor. Installation will require new trannies in my case (I have counter rotating 454's) and the new engines will have to be slid aft about 6 inches which makes for a pain. Price is high at $12500 a side. Nothing is ever easy!! Will

lobsta1 · Post by **lobsta1** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 9:32 am

Will, a guy I know of, was one of the 1st to put Cummins 300's in a Blackfin 32. He found out from later repowers that if he had moved his engines 4" forward, he would have picked up 2 kts cruising speed. Our Berts run nose high. If I tab down, I pick up a little over a kt in speed by the GPS. I'm assuming you have to move back, because the new trannys are shorter & you want to keep the same shafts. If you move back 6", you might be giving up your new found speed. Just something else to think about. Al 1978 33 FBC NITES OFF

Post by **dougl33** » Wed Dec 10, 2003 10:43 am

The guy I spoke with who re-powered his 37 Egg said the 8.1's fropped right in. I'm just wondering why they would need to be slid back in the Berts? Regards, Doug L. PS AL, Its good to see you posting during the day rather than in the wee hours of the morning. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth

will newton · Post by **will newton** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 3:49 am

My office window overlooks part of the St Johns River and there is a Bertram 37 just sitting all pretty in the marina right in my line of sight. Plus I have a buddy who just repowerd his B35 and he is constantly calling me telling me to get off my wallet. So, I can't help but think about boats all day. Not always good for my work career. I don't know for sure why the guy at Crusader said I would need to slide back. I agree, I would rather keep the CG where it is as the boat does like to be trimed downward. In fact, if I do a repower I would like to move my genny forward not only to get it out of the weather but to move the CG that much more forward...some of these new gen sets are tiny. Will

Post by **dougl33** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:23 am

So it was the Crusader guy that told you the engines needed to be moved back. OK. Chances are that your mechanic might not agree/need to. I mean come on. How familiar can a Crusader guy in Mich be with a Bert engine room? Sounds like he might have been guessing. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth

skyking · Post by **skyking** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 4:19 pm

Hey Doug, The Crusader guy told me the same thing !!! This was his story (and it does sound reasonable) to me. With my 350hp/454cid Crusaders w/BW grears....the new setup is shorter, because the gear box is much shorter, and it is, I've seen it. So you either move the engines back to meet the existing flange on the end of the shaft ..or... you'll need to get longer shafts !!!!!Herein lies the delima....do you want to move the new 385hp/496cid engine(as mentioned,not a good idea), or get new shafts that are 6 inches longer to meet the new engine/trans setup ????? It's new easy,simple, or cheap is it ???? Keep it comin' guys.....Ken L. 1982 B33FBC "Blue Chip" skyking@post.com www.kenliller.com skyking4ever on "AIM"

CB35 · Post by **CB35** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 4:41 am

I have talked to three people that have screwed up their 35Bertram ride by moving stuff forward. The first was a 3208Cat boat that moved the genny to in front of the engines. They had to put a few hundred pounds of lead by the rudders to get back to be able to run following seas. The second boat was a 3116 repower with the genny again in front of the engines. The boat just plain sucked in a following sea; and the guy could not run high rpm cruise unless he filled the kill box where the genny used to be with water. The third was a cummins repower that the owner said was "squirrely" in a following sea. My 35B Cat boat can run a following sea hands off. Watch out when you start to move thing too far front. The trim tabs can be used to drop the bow when not running a following sea. In fact my 35B gets two extra kts just by dropping the bow with tabs. Tabs up and she just slices through a big following sea at 20 kts. Charlie

skyking · Post by **skyking** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 1:26 pm

Charlie, Thanks for that post. Can you give us some "numbers" on your 35. What year, what engines, gears , shaft size, prop soze, cruise spped at what rpms,..etc... thanks Ken L.

Post by **dougl33** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:50 pm

Just an update: My friend dropped the 385hp 8.1 Crusaders in his 1987 35 Egg this past winter. He had Merc 454's before that topped the boat out at 25-26 knots. We went for a cruise on Sat. The engines are rated for 4200-4600 rpms at WOT. He's running 4 bladed 20x18's. Not sure about the trannies, but I think they're 2.5:1. Motors revved up to 4800 rpms good for 30 knots with full fuel, water and 2 pob. If he added an inch of pitch, I'll bet he drops in around 4600 rpms and will pull 31 knots. The motors gave a nice cruise of 22 knots at 3400 rpms. I'll bet that goes up too if he re-pitches. The power was instantaneous. I'd swear he could pull up a water skier. It'd sure be nice to have a set of those in our boats. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth

Post by **Admin** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:16 pm

I know. I am thinking that is the way to go if I ever repower. It just seems like more bang for the buck. David Sumich Bertram33.com Forum Administrator

BottomLine · Post by **BottomLine** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 11:00 am

Starting to think about repowering Merc 340's with the Crusader 385's and found the posts interesting. One item I didn't see discussed was the electrical hookups. How do the wiring harnesses, gauges, etc. match-up? Any experiences would be helpful.

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 2:34 pm

Does anyone have an estimate of the cost invoved in replacing 454 engines with the 8.1 crusaders? engine and parts and what a boat yard might charge for installation. and how does the price compare to merc? has anyone considered volvo? Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC

photo finish · Post by **photo finish** » Fri Dec 24, 2004 8:33 am

it appears that my port engine has got major problems so now i have to make the decision of rebuild or repower.i was quoted by 2 mechanics to rebuild with a new long block it would cost 7k-8 ki am sold on that if i repower that i want gas not diesel due to the fact that my family cant handle diesel fumes.so it looks like the options are basically 8.1s. where are you guys getting the price of the 8.1 crusaders for 12k with gears? I am seeing prices at around 16k for mercruiser. my marina also gave me a verbal of repowering of 45k which i thought was crazy.how much should installation be? i would guess that an install of the 8.1 should be very quick and easy on our boats I would guess it should be 3k-4k so couple that with 24k for engines that is 28k Right? poll question: mercruiser or crusader 380hp or 425hp which transmission? Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC