Boat US safety Alert

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lobsta1
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Boat US safety Alert

Post by lobsta1 »

This was copied from Boat/Us quote:BOATU.S. SAFETY ALERT: NEWLY REFORMULATED GASOLINE WITH ETHANOL COULD RUPTURE OLD FIBERGLASS GAS TANKS Explosion Hazard and Significant Engine Damage Evidenced on Large, Older Vessels Older fiberglass fuel tanks may fail as a result of recent gasoline reformulations that are using increased concentrations of the fuel additive ethanol. BoatU.S. believes that as a result of industry-wide changes in fiberglass resin formulations in the mid 1980's, the problem appears to be limited to tanks manufactured prior to this date. Diesel fuel systems are not affected. The fiberglass fuel tanks in question were standard equipment on some Hatteras, Bertram and possibly other boats. While the investigation is still in the preliminary stage, BoatU.S. believes that reformulations made to gasoline in the Long Island Sound area that replaced MTBE (Methyl Tertiary-Butyl Ether) in late 2004 with a 10% concentration of ethanol is causing the additive to "attack" the resin in the old fiberglass tanks. The results are weakened tank walls and bottoms with the potential to leak. Anytime gasoline leaks into the bilge, there is a significant risk of an explosion. BoatU.S. has confirmed reports of tank wall failure in which gasoline was found leaking into the bilge. It also has reports of a tar-like substance - possibly created from the chemical reaction between the older fiberglass resin and ethanol - causing hard black deposits that damage intake valves and pushrods, ultimately destroying the engine. "At a minimum the problem can devalue a boat significantly since replacing damaged fuel tanks and engines can be a significant expense. However, the potential for leaking and explosion is a far greater factor," said Chuck Fort, associate editor of Seaworthy, the damage avoidance newsletter from BoatU.S. BoatU.S. is asking boaters for any firsthand reports or other information they may have on the issue and is doing additional testing to evaluate the extent of the problem. "We'd like to know if other gasoline reformulations with lesser concentrations of ethanol react with the resin, perhaps at a slower pace," said Fort. The increasing use of ethanol has largely been the result of federal and state efforts to replace MTBE, a potential carcinogen, with a safer alternative. MTBE and ethanol oxygenate fuel to help reduce harmful emissions when running cold engines just after startup. BoatU.S. has no reports from other states using lesser concentrations of ethanol. "Many well-regarded boat manufacturers have used fiberglass tanks reliably for years," said Fort. "But unforeseen by these builders, the new reformulation in New York and Connecticut includes a high percentage of ethanol. And unfortunately, gasoline with ethanol is the only fuel available to boaters in these areas," he added. Some stations in New Jersey may also be using ethanol-enhanced fuel. If you have any information on the issue, please contact Fort at 703-461-2878, ext. 3033 or email CFort@BoatUS.com. Early symptoms may include engine backfiring and hard (sluggish) starting, in which the motor turns over slowly as though the battery were weak. Affected engines also may not reach their rated RPM. Fort said, "Ironically, the substance seems to pass through fuel filters leaving no tell-tale marks - some have appeared clean on our reports. The only way to know for certain is to pull the carburetor and inspect the underside for a black, gummy film which can indicate a serious problem." Until it fully understands the extent of the issue, BoatU.S. is recommending that any early 1980's or older vessel with fiberglass gas tanks be stored empty over the winter. BoatU.S. - Boat Owners Association of The United States - is the nation's leading advocate for recreational boaters providing its 620,000 members with a wide array of consumer services including a group-rate marine insurance program that insures nearly a quarter million boats; the largest fleet of more than 500 towing assistance vessels; discounts on fuel, slips, and repairs at over 825 Cooperating Marinas; boat financing; and a subscription to BoatU.S. Magazine, the most widely read boating publication in the U.S. __________________ Associate Editor, Seaworthy Magazine, BoatU.S. http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/default.asp Over 25 yrs boating the California Delta! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Does anyone know if YOUR usual fueling station carries the Ethanol enriched fuel & how would we find this out? Al 1978 33 FBC NITES OFF
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Post by Admin »

Also, when exactly did Bertram start using the new formula resin in the tanks? In other words, what is the cutoff date? David Sumich 33 Megabites Huntington Harbour, CA Forum Administrator
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Post by lobsta1 »

David, Good ??.In my case the NITES OFF appears to definitely "UH-OH" category. Especially since I just filled the tank. Al 1978 33 FBC NITES OFF
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Post by Gunny »

Before you waste a lot of fuel and lose a lot of sleep do a google search (ethanol + fiberglass) The Coast guard has not reported any problems and the petroleum industry which does all kinds of studys on tanks and fuel blends has not reported any. The Boatus people fail to mention any vessel by location that was affected! Also bear in mind following Katrina requirements to add oxygen to gas in the entire usa were suspended! Gunny
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Post by dougl33 »

Gunny, If you go over to the 31 site you will see a lot of discussion from guys that have had problems. Infact, it was discussed at length on the 31 site last year. Lots of the 31 guys were having issues exactly as boat useless described them (i.e. black gunk gumming up the fuel system). Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA
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Post by Gunny »

Doug, Yes they have been with no true cause found! One fellow even said he sent some from a hatteras to the lab and they were not sure what it was! Could it be twenty or thirty years of poor maintenance rearing its ugly head? Some of those engines mentioned have not been produced for thirty years and were built for leaded fuel. Gunny
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Post by dougl33 »

Seems like too much of a coincidence that they'd start having these issues at the same time ethanol started showing up in the fuel tanks. Personally, I don't believe in coincidences. Leaded fuel has been gone for a long time. Again, some of the 31 guys have been having issues and most of those guys are pretty serious about maintaining their boats (that's why they refer to each other as "the faithful"). If a bunch of Sea-Liner owners were complaining it'd be one thing, but when Hatt and Bert guys start complaining that's another. Most of the 31's were built with the same engines we have. I'm sure Al will post with some additional info soon. Regards, Doug L. 1986 33 Bertram FBC Queen Elizabeth Marblehead, MA
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Post by lobsta1 »

Gunny, There is just to much coincidence going around. EVERY boating forum I've been on for the last year has someone discussing the problems they are having. Almost every single boater complaining is from Ct. & NY. I know last season I personally drained the most foul smelling, ugly looking gunk you can imagine out of my Racors. This was after only about 10 hrs. running time. I've been out to the Chevron site & read their report on a certain percentage of vehicles being adversely affected. This was an acceptable risk. I've also read that the ethanol MUST be mixed at the point of dispensing. (tank farm in Chelsea, Ma. for example) It's to corrosive to run through the normal pipelines already mixed. Even worse it is VERY susceptible to contamination from water & dissolved metals from galvanic reaction. If it comes out I've included excerpts from Iowa Dept. of Agriculture to dispensors of ethanol blends. quote:Electrical Conductivity The electrical conductivity of the fuel ethanol is a measure of the fuel’s quality. High conductivity is a sign of corrosivity of the fuel and may indicate the presence of metal in the fuel, which could be the result of material or equipment degradation. If you use fuel whose conductivity is higher than specification, your vehicles will not operate properly. A conductivity value of no more than 500 micro-mhos/meter is recommended (mho is sometimes abbreviated as S). If the conductivity reading is outside specification, contact your fuel provider for assistance. Fuel ethanol, like other liquid fuels, is very easy to contaminate. Certain materials commonly used with gasoline are totally incompatible with alcohols. When these materials come in contact with ethanol, they may dissolve in the fuel and damage engine parts, possibly causing breakdown of the vehicle. Even if parts do not fail, running an ethanol-fueled vehicle with contaminated fuel may cause deposits that could eventually harm the engine. Some materials are known to become degraded by contact with fuel ethanol blends having high alcohol concentrations. Zinc, brass, lead, and aluminum are some of these sensitive metals. Terne (leadtin- alloy)-plated steel, which is commonly used for gasoline fuel tanks, and lead-based solder are also incompatible with fuel ethanol. Avoid using these metals because of the possibility of vehicle failure or fuel contamination. Unplated steel, stainless steel, black iron, and bronze have shown acceptable resistance to corrosion by ethanol. Nonmetallic materials that degrade when in contact with fuel ethanol include natural rubber, polyurethane, cork gasket material, leather, polyester-bonded fiberglass laminate, polyvinyl chloride (PVC), polyamides, and methyl-methacrylate plastics. Nonmetallic materials that have been successfully used with fuel ethanol include Buna-N, Neoprene rubber, polyethylene, nylon, polypropylene, nitrile, Viton, and Teflon. Fiberglass tanks can be used, but they should be lined with chemical-grade rubber to prevent the fuel from contacting the fiberglass. I am currently exchanging emails with officials from MA. DEP, the EPA & Chuck Fort from BoatUS Al 1978 33 FBC NITES OFF
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Post by photo finish »

Just to make sure i am reding the posts right, The fiberglass tanks like the one i have in my 1981 boat is only affected by Ethanol not normal unleaded gas that i get at the fuel stations here in florida.That is fuel labeled on the pump as Ethanol! correct? Tim Stamm Photo Finish 1981 33' Bertram FBC
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Post by lobsta1 »

Tim, You're safe in Florida. Link to "RFG areas" http://www.epa.gov/otaq/rfg/whereyoulive.htm Al 1978 33 FBC NITES OFF
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Post by IRGuy »

For those of you who have not already read it.. the BoatUS article on this subject is on page 7 of the Vol XI January 2006 issue of their magazine, along with a pic of a crudded up valve. Frank B Somewhere between having made an offer and passing papers
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Post by lobsta1 »

Frank, I saw that little beauty already. Is that a foretaste of things to come. Al 1978 33 FBC NITES OFF
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Post by lobsta1 »

Results are starting to come in. http://www.boatus.com/seaworthy/fueltest.asp Al 1978 33 FBC NITES OFF
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Post by Rick »

Am I reading this right ? That Ethanol is coming to a marina near us even though we know it damages fuel tanks...bad enough we have find the lowest prices ! Since I'm an '85, I'm on the border line and it would be great if there was some kind of test we could perform to ensure we're okay. Rick Ticket 85 SF Falmouth, MA
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Post by Rick »

Douh, It said you were the last to reply here but I didn't see your posting, I'm sure it was something good ! Rick Ticket 85 SF Falmouth, MA
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